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CherryCoke's ALL OR NOTHING (Binary Options) Odyssey - Page 46

post #901 of 1305
Thread Starter 

this is a post from a BOD member, Ray.

 

It would give all a different perspective to trading binary options especially with a US regulated platform like NADEX, an exchange rather than a broker.

=======================================

 

I am moving about 90-percent of my trading activity off of 24O and onto Nadex.  Why?  Several reasons:
 
1) 24O is an offshore broker, currently unregulated.
 
2) Withdrawals have been very slow lately on 24O.
 
3) Trade management on 24O is very limited.
 
4) Maximum returns in normal trading is limited to about 89 percent
 
5) 24O only makes money when I lose money
 
I absolutely hate #2.  The other reasons are strong but not the same level of hate I feel when I contemplate #2.
 
Nadex on the other hand is based in Chicago, the center of worldwide options trading.  They are regulated by the Commodities Futures Trading Commision. They are a true exchange which means they facilitate trades between retail investors and market makers.  They make money on fees (trading fees, settlement fees, etc).
 
Another reason to switch to Nadex gets at point number 3.  Let me explain.  Nadex sets the strike prices for their option contracts.  That is to say that they determine the conditions of the contract.  When you see a contract listed that says something like EUR/USD > 1.2250 (11AM), it means this contract will finish in the money if the EUR/USD is trading higher than 1.2250 at 11AM US Eastern Time.
 
There currency binaries trade for a 2 hour period ending at the time shown in the contract.  During that two hour period, the price of the contract fluctuates.  If the EUR/USD price goes well above 1.2250 during the expiry window, the price of the contract goes up substantially.  If the EUR/USD price goes down substantially during the expiry window, the price of the option contract will go down substantially.  
 
This concept of the price of the option is totally absent when you are trading with the likes of 24O or BDB.  Their options are not priced.  You are the one pricing it with the amount that you decide to put on the trade.  If you put $500 into the trade, that is some measure of your confidence that the underlying asset will finish above or below the CURRENT price level of the asset.  Instead, maybe you only put $50 on that same trade.  If so, that in some way states that you are much less confident about the trade.  But, the point is that YOU have priced the contract yourself based on the current price level.  With Nadex, because they set the strike price, the price of the contract is relative to the value of the underlying asset.  That is the most important concept to understand when trading on Nadex.  
 
You might think of the price of the contract as a percentage probability that the contract will expire in the money.  If the price of the contract is $50, you might consider that to be an indication that their is a 50 percent probability that the contract will finish in the money.  If it is trading at $90, you might consider that as a 90 percent probability that it will finish in the money.  In practice though, those prices/probabilities are only a measure of the CURRENT conditions.  Those conditions are constantly in a state of flux.  It is that volatility which allows us to make money.
 
Here's an illustration of a trade I placed today.  This morning the Nasdaq 100 futures tanked when the NY market opened at 9:30am EST.  I believed that the futures would recover.  So, I wanted to place a High/Call on Nasdaq 100.  I traded on both 24O and Nadex.  The results show why trade management is so much better on Nadex (my point #3 above).  The results also speak to the superior returns which are possible on Nadex (my point #4 above).
 
Here's the trades from each platform:
 
24onasdaqjuly11.png
 
ustech100july11.png
 

So, what do you see there? The 24O trade is very straightforward.

I put $250 on the trade, finished ITM and made a profit of $210, an 84-percent return. I got in when Nasdaq100 futures was at 2571.62

For the Nadex trade, note that the strike price of the contract that I was trading was 2576. I got in just a minute and a half before I placed the 24O trade. So, the Nasdaq futures were trading roughly around the same price as when I traded on 24O. You can see that I got in initially at about $21. The contract was priced at $21 because the futures were about 4.5 points below where it would have to be in order for the contract to finish in the money. So, it can be thought of as a probability of 21 percent that the contract would finish in the money. Why would I buy a contract with only a 21 percent chance to finish in the money. For two possible reasons: 1) if it does finish in the money, I will make a profit of $79 per contract that I bought. $79 of profit on a $21 trade represents a 376 percent return. 2) I can trade in and out of the contract until expiry.

In this case, it was method number two that I was interested in. I had a belief that Nasdaq futures would rise from the 2571 before expiry. Would it finish above 2576? I had no idea. But, that wasn't the point since my goal was to capitalize on my belief that it would rise. Initially, the price went against me. It dropped all the way to 2566. At that point I added to my initial position of 20 contracts. I bought 6 more contracts at $10.50. Then the price went even further against me. The contract fell to a mere $3.50. So, I bought 1 more contract bringing me to a total of 27 contracts. By buying at multiple lower prices I was able to average down the cost of the contracts to about $18.

That's when the fun started. As I expected Nasdaq futures started to rise. Eventually they got back to 2576 before expiry. That upward movement caused the price of the contracts to rise and you can see that I was able to get out around $47.50. So, roughly speaking, I made a profit of $29 per contract which represents a 161-percent return versus the 84 percent return I made on the 24O trade.

Note that ultimately, the Nasdaq 100 > 2576 (10AM) contract on Nadex finished OUT of the money. As shown on the 24O screenshot, the final Nasdaq level was 2572.125. But, that didn't matter. My goal in this case was NOT to try to determine whether it would finish above 2576. My goal was to TRADE the MOVEMENT. That's the beauty of Nadex. It offers an opportunity to engage in real trading. You buy contracts, you sell contracts. That's trading.

One more note. As I mentioned I bought 1 contract at $3.50. Yeah, yeah, hindsight is 20/20. But, just reflect for a moment. Let's say that I bought _all_ my contracts at $3.50. Let's do the math. I buy a contract at $3.50. I sell the contract at $47.50 for a profit of $44 per contract and a return of 1257 percent. You will NEVER, EVER get a return like that trading on 24O and other "brokers" like them. On the other hand, situations like that happen EVERY DAY on Nadex. Am I saying that you are going to be skillful enough to make returns like that? That depends on you. But, the mere fact that returns like that are even POSSIBLE should get you thinking about whether you are trading on the right platform.

Net gain on the Nadex trade: $767

===========================

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post #902 of 1305
Thread Starter 

13 Jul.png

 

my first live trade with IG. deposited on the same day with $500.
 
used a daily expiration. invested about $440 (not sure why my invested amount is not shown here).
 
Also not sure why my entry positions are not shown too and so is the expiry price.
 
my entry was at 1568, open for a position for it to close above 1570 by expiry. And by expiry Gold was at 1592.
 
Still need to explore the platform more.
 
made $375. about 85% profit.   
 
Will be doing daily binary trades from now on. easier and simpler for me. if u look at the time of my entry, it was about another 17 hours later that it expires (official expiry was at 1:25pm EST).
 
It took some time for the system to generate my invoice. Sounds good to me. simple trading plan, making 85% profit daily with one trade.
post #903 of 1305

Thanks for the NADEX and IG posts CC. So will you continue ALL OR  NOTHING trades with 24O and more with IG?

 

I'm similiarly, testing to prove a trade plan where 2 straddle positions are placed at London open on the PYXmarkets platform. I anticipate net gain from the trade in right direction to cover all losses; close positons early for highest posible profit before London close. Positions placed early and further from market price yield 20:1 which produce greater potential gains than new positons placed close to London close. Another way of explaining this is I can make net profits with early close even though the positions will be OTM at the London close.

post #904 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrycoke View Post

13 Jul.png

 

my first live trade with IG. deposited on the same day with $500.
 
used a daily expiration. invested about $440 (not sure why my invested amount is not shown here).
 
Also not sure why my entry positions are not shown too and so is the expiry price.
 
my entry was at 1568, open for a position for it to close above 1570 by expiry. And by expiry Gold was at 1592.
 
Still need to explore the platform more.
 
made $375. about 85% profit.   
 
Will be doing daily binary trades from now on. easier and simpler for me. if u look at the time of my entry, it was about another 17 hours later that it expires (official expiry was at 1:25pm EST).
 
It took some time for the system to generate my invoice. Sounds good to me. simple trading plan, making 85% profit daily with one trade.

 

Cherry, this is something I know a lot about. I have used and still use IG custom nets every now and again... The reason you see the position close 17 hours later than the official close is that believe it or not a huge company like IG still settle their custom bets manually. They do not get many wrong but it is a slow process.

 

I know you guys are very experienced and all make great profit but 85% is not a great deal for a one day trade.

 

As I said I use them still as the platform is easy to use so good luck with IG you are in good hands.

post #905 of 1305

is there any proof nadex/IG isnt sell/buying contracts because i dont think its a big market with legit liquidity. If they are how is this any different than 24op in a sense that they only make money when the trader(us) loses.

post #906 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datemike View Post

is there any proof nadex/IG isnt sell/buying contracts because i dont think its a big market with legit liquidity. If they are how is this any different than 24op in a sense that they only make money when the trader(us) loses.

 

 

I'm not sure TBH but. However what gives companies like these the element of added security is that they are large corporates that that have underlying regulation.... whether or not the actual instrument you are trading is regulated. NADEX is owned by IG group so the have the monopoly... which is one reason why I use PYXmarkets. 

 

I dont think these companies have a great deal more to offer.... for me it is solely that I do not want to do with a little outfit in Cyprus whose regulators or corrupt at best.

 

Give me a legit London based FSA regulated platform any day of the week.

post #907 of 1305

i hardly see how PYXmarkets is any different. They are the ones selling you the options. AKA they are risking there money. Which is no different than 24op. They only make money when us(traders) lose money.

post #908 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datemike View Post

i hardly see how PYXmarkets is any different. They are the ones selling you the options. AKA they are risking there money. Which is no different than 24op. They only make money when us(traders) lose money.

 

 

Eeeerm I think you should look a bit harder at the platform form Datemike. They charge a spread!!! So there fees arent derived directly from losses.

 

They also differ alot from 24op..... 1 - Regulated by the most trusted regulator on earth (Except the one in Cyprus ;)) 2 - Daily options not houry... better for me (Maybe not other) 3- I can sell my position at any time to cut a loss or take a profit. ( Been a while since I moved from 24op but they didnt offer me this back then) 4 - My withdrawal gets processed same day. (24op I was lucky to get my money back ever.... not just within a certain number of days) 5- They dont sell me anything, they leave me to trade as much or as litlle as I want (I used to constantly get calls from other binary platforms... even after depositing $1,000 I guarantee I'd get a call telling me I can become a VIP if I deposit $5k.... meaning I would be very important to a cypriot gaming house but $5k lighter..... I'm happy being a nonVIP if I can keep my money)

 

I do not know the platform inside out but I have consistantly made money on PYX.... why would they treat me so well if they were losing money from me?

 

In my earlier posts I mentioned life would be boring if we were all the same.... I think works here to. Good luck with who you trade with

post #909 of 1305

I looked at the platform. You just set the boundary where you think its going to end. That has nothing to do with the issue i'm bringing up.

 

I set my boundary & place my bet with them. If i win the bet they pay me. Do you not get that? Its not other traders betting against me like a standard option market, its them. They are risking there own money. No different than 24op.

post #910 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datemike View Post

I looked at the platform. You just set the boundary where you think its going to end. That has nothing to do with the issue i'm bringing up.

 

I set my boundary & place my bet with them. If i win the bet they pay me. Do you not get that? Its not other traders betting against me like a standard option market, its them. They are risking there own money. No different than 24op.

As I said, I do not know how they make there money and couldnt care less TBH. The fact they have to conform due to regulation means that I am happy and if they go bust with my money I am covered by the FSCS.... something I don't think you will get with 24op.

 

If that's how they make money good on them... they have'nt made anything out of me so there must be a lot more poor traders than good ones. I am not bothered if they make their money by drowning kittens so long as I continue to be happy with a superior offering.

 

Good luck to you and who ever you trade with.

post #911 of 1305
Quote:General
PYXmarkets Ltd and Prediction Capital Ltd are appointed representatives of Merchant Capital Ltd which is authorised and regulated in the UK by the Financial Services Authority (reference number 220131), whose address is 25 The North Colonnade, London, E14 5HS.

 

That doesn't seem fishy? Running the regulation threw another company? If you look up Merchant Capital it quite a bit different than what PYXmarket is.

post #912 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by LosPinos View Post

As I said, I do not know how they make there money and couldnt care less TBH. The fact they have to conform due to regulation means that I am happy and if they go bust with my money I am covered by the FSCS.... something I don't think you will get with 24op.

 

If that's how they make money good on them... they have'nt made anything out of me so there must be a lot more poor traders than good ones. I am not bothered if they make their money by drowning kittens so long as I continue to be happy with a superior offering.

 

Good luck to you and who ever you trade with.

 

You will also see that Merchant Capital were responsible for the incubation of lucid markets who have just sold 50% of their business after running for three years for $197million to FXCM. Concentrate on researching who you trade with... Im more than capable of researching who I wish to trade with.... Do you know what an AR means?

 

It means that you are regulated through the umbrella company... You abide by the same laws and benefit from the same compliance procedures... emphasis on REGULATED. 

 

As I said good luck with whoever you trade with... I'll stay where I am thanks... you wont switch me so please do not keep trying to.

post #913 of 1305

I dont see anything regarding merchant capitals role in fxcm aquiring a 50% interest in lucid markets. Regardless of that if you want to put your money into a broker which isn't directly regulated go ahead.

post #914 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datemike View Post

I dont see anything regarding merchant capitals role in fxcm aquiring a 50% interest in lucid markets. Regardless of that if you want to put your money into a broker which isn't directly regulated go ahead.

 

Okay you win I will withdraw everything I have with them and put it with that trusty.... regulated.... segregated.... safe house..... Los Pinos the 24op trader.

 

As for the role with Lucid I suggest you research into things a bit more not just what comes up no.1 on google.

 

Any thanks for the banter but I have things to do and didnt really join this forum to have 24op rammed down my throat.

post #915 of 1305

I honestly dont care where you put your money. It in no way benefits me.

 

enjoy your day

Quote:
Originally Posted by LosPinos View Post

 

Okay you win I will withdraw everything I have with them and put it with that trusty.... regulated.... segregated.... safe house..... Los Pinos the 24op trader.

 

As for the role with Lucid I suggest you research into things a bit more not just what comes up no.1 on google.

 

Any thanks for the banter but I have things to do and didnt really join this forum to have 24op rammed down my throat.

post #916 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datemike View Post

I honestly dont care where you put your money. It in no way benefits me.

 

enjoy your day

Are you sure it is'nt of benefit..... You sound like a 24op IB to me.

 

Anyway for those who still look to this as a digital discussion forum, How have you all got on today?

post #917 of 1305

Traduk100.bmp

 

Low vol so kept my money on the sidelines today... One small trade 199% profit.... smile.gif

 

No need to play both side today as UK100 didnt move a great deal, got in early and covered the market 10points either side...nb, I do not touch this kind of trade when there is any market moving news out.

post #918 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by LosPinos View Post

Are you sure it is'nt of benefit..... You sound like a 24op IB to me.

 

Anyway for those who still look to this as a digital discussion forum, How have you all got on today?

recovery_trades.png

 

I put my live account on hold. Here I opened

£100 positions for the first time on the demo. Had too many trades; however these trades in the last 45 mins recovered the day!

post #919 of 1305

Cherry

 

what is the web address of this broker? How do you find it?
 

post #920 of 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by keste View Post

Cherry

 

what is the web address of this broker? How do you find it?
 

Regarding her last post: http://www.igmarkets.com/

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