The Bible, Jesus and God - (we cant just go making things up)? a discussion - Page 6

Wow. You get to pick and choose what to believe and not believe about the Bible? Imagine that.

All but Simpleton concepts elude you?



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No one said that... I'm not even sure how you came up with that... The Trinity is inferred without the specific word being mentioned...

And I forgot I responded to these and saved it on my desktop:

That request was for Saul and nobody else. Thanking you for proving my point by taking a piece of conversation and taking it out of context by misdirection. And since the birth of Jesus and the New Testament, God does not punish sin with death which makes your example completely irrelevant... You also fail to mention the preceeding verse: "'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt." Apparently, the Amalekites weren't very nice and were indeed not the unfortunate, innocent bystanders of some random case of genocide...

The writings of the Bible are congruent with many secular writings and archaeological findings; there are many parts of the Bible that are indeed viewed "without question". These accuracies, I believe, lend credibility towards the book as a whole. Granted, there are many "holes" in the Bible and parts that are both highly debated and considered far from fact. This is common with much of our ancient history. Regardless, the Bible is at least partially true. That is indisputable.

And, no offense, Jaz. But I consider random youtube videos in a religious debate to be about as "respectable" as Jon Stewart videos in a political debate... I did watch them and they're more of the same petty discrepancies that hinge on semantics and translation. For example, the first author chastises God for referring to a four-legged insect...which is odd because insect classification began about 6,000 years after that reference was made...and as Gould guesstimates, 99% of all plant and animal species that have existed have already become extinct with most leaving no fossils...(which also trumps the snake reference)... Frankly, pitting some random youtube videos against the best-selling book of all time, is rather ridiculous, imo.

Right here...
Why even the existence of the Bible if one can disregard most of what has been written in it?

None taken. However, no source of material, Youtube or otherwise, presented in an effort to expose or refute the writings of the Bible would be accepted and would be completely disregarded by you and those whom "believe". No amount of evidence contrary to the Bible and it's documentation of history will be accepted by you and et al. If not Youtube videos done by people who have obviously put a lot of thought and research into the subject, then what material would you regard as acceptable? The God Delusion by the author and biologist Richard Dawkins? Would that be legitimate? An article in About.com titled Scientifically, God Does Not Exist: Science Allows us to Say God Does Not Exist. Is that enough? How about the numerous scientific publications that also conclude the similar sentiment. Do those work for you?

The fact of the matter, is that these debates do not influence one's belief system, or lack thereof. No amount of evidence, citing, or referencing is going to change your mind about the existence of God. Contrarily, no amount of referencing to the Bible, which is really all Christians have other than the support and backing of other Christians, is going to change my mind that there is not a God.

Yeah, it makes us all Christians.

Which reminds me. I worked down in San Diego for 10 years and a good buddy of mine was Muslim (still is I imagine but havn't spoken to him in a few years). He insisted that we all worship the same God, we're all the same, etc.

I told him that Jesus is my God. He would reply with, "Actually, he was a prophet." and I would say, "Yes, we disagree, he's my God, not yours." and he would say, "No, he was a prophet, we all agree."

Almost like he wasn't listening to me, he would insist that he could call himself a Christian just as much as a Muslim, because Jesus was his prophet as well as Mohammed.

If this is true, then how does one explain the many Atheists out there who claim to have once been a Christian and then "Saw the light"?

Or how does one explain the people like C.S. Lewis who were very outspoken in their Atheism and then claim to have reasoned themselves into a logical belief in God?

It seems to me that we humans, for the most part, are made up of two parts. Emotion and logic. And while it is often true that we allow ourselves to act and believe upon our emotional state, logic can eat away at that and convince of us things that would not normally be the case.

There are many scientists who believe in God and would tell you that it is the science that has lead them to that belief. There are many philosophers who would tell you that logical reasoning is what lead them to the inescapable conclusion of the existence of God.

None of that proves or disproves the existence of God.

I only state it in order to refute your assertion above.

These sorts of conversations act upon our minds in ways we do not predict. While our public persona often times shouts louder and louder that we are unconvinced, in private, we have our doubts and these discussions act to increase or decrease those doubts.

Technically he is correct.

The God of Moses, is the God of Abraham, is the same God that came down in the form of Jesus (his avatar!). This same God is also Allah.

So are you saying that it is possible that I could change your mind?

Are you sure?

Mohammad claims to be instructed by Allah to kill.
Must be mistaken Identity...

Clearly, a difference.



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While I dont agree often with you, I will give you this one.




While the first part is true, the part about God came down in the form of Jesus is not true, Jesus never claimed to be God, and did not send himself and resurrect himself. This belief that God and Jesus are the same supports a trinity, which is not supported by the bible or Jesus. He is Gods son.

I been trying to stay away from posting in this section, but its been awhile since Ive posted anything here. Just my input.

Why would you want to? Besides this forum how have I affected your life? And even if you got all Christians to stop believing how would that help you?

I think it would hurt you. For instance(and I know I will catch heck for this but it's true) if I knew there was no God, no judgement, no afterlife, I would lie to better myself. I would have no problem divorcing my wife but staying with her to get all kinds of free money from the government. I could easily talk myself into it..like why no everyone else does it? Lots of things would change.

Several bible verses say otherwise.

I fail to understand why it is that religious people believe we would all act like animals without religion or belief in a higher power. Without retyping it all over, allow me to quote myself:

Morality is something religion had usurped to claim it as their own. Like marriage, for example. Marriage was not a concept created by religion. But religion will capitalize and usurp anything that will allow them to exert more power over the general populace...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

So you see, the first example of legal marriage was documented nearly a full 400 years before mention, or usurping of it, by the Bible.

I also understand the ridicule people get using Wiki references, so if required I can conduct further investigation and provide other sources that might be considered more legitimate, though Wiki is subject to scrutiny by peers and can be edited to reflect more accurate information.

Not God almighty, there are many gods, as even satan is a god, but only one refered to as almighty, most high. That one that Jesus is placed at his right hand, the one that sent Jesus and resurrected him The one that jesus prayed to, as he was not praying to him self. The reason the trinity is so hard to explain is there is no trinity, only a man made doctrine or deciever.
You and your Father my resemble each other but you are not the same
person. I will be happy to consider scriptures that you feel support Jesus claiming to be God most high. I sincerly am not trying to be rude, just sharing my insight on the subject.

I remember I tried to create a thread like this previously, and it turned out exactly the same way that this one did. To be honest, a lot of the posts here (from both sides) make me cringe when I read them.

Rather than calling anyone out or continuing to argue in circles, I'd recommend that both non-Christians and Christians alike read The Reason For God by Tim Keller, a pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York (and in my and many others' opinions, one of the most theologically sound preachers in the world today). As someone noted before, there seem to be a lot of misconceptions flying around - both from the believers and the non-believers. This book does a pretty good job of addressing a lot of the arguments against Christianity as well as clearing up a lot of these misconceptions.

In addition, for all the Christians out there, I'd recommend another Keller book in addition to the first. I think that The Prodigal God does a great job of presenting the Gospel in a fresh way to believers who may have grown cold over the years. As Paul the Apostle writes, we should "[resolve] to know nothing... except Jesus Christ and him crucified."

Hope this post doesn't come across as "holier than thou" or anything like that. Just wanted to try to offer some clarity to the conversation. If you don't have the funds to buy the book or you just don't feel like going through the trouble, I'd be glad to explain as much as I can with my limited knowledge. Just shoot me a PM. See y'all around.

I guess I'd better go tell my wife and kids I'm leaving them to go on welfware and sell crack. Us Atheists obviously have no character without religion. I'd better go sully up my criminal record by committing my first crime, and then maybe go get my first speeding ticket while I'm at it.

If you were any more pernicious your title would be Mephistopheles the Tempter!

First I never said I would turn into an animal. I figured you guys would run with it when I said that.

It does not matter what you believe. The fact is a lot of people do not lie because it's a sin. There are tons of "white lies". Do you lie to women so you can sleep with them Jaz? I'm not saying without religion they would run around killing people but they would start to lie more, when they saw fit to. There would be nothing stopping them from instant gratification Etc.

And yes most atheist have no character. Whoa! you say? They may not call themselves atheist but IMO a person does not have to join or call themselves one to be one. IMO Joe bank robber, gang banger, and scumbag are atheist because they do not believe in God.

And I never said you could not hold morals if you are athiest.

yet if you found your life at the mercy of someone else you would probably be just like the rest who scream 'oh god help me'.