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Landmark health insurance bill passes House - Page 3

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SHEA View Post
What a disaster! Nearly everyone under 30 seems to be
leaning towards their public school indoctrination!

If everyone thinks like you guys ...then we ARE finished!

Beck exposes DC corruption and connects it to the ones
perpetrating it but doesn't present a realistic solution to
eliminate it.

Dude, please do not misinterpret my message. I'm a huge Beck fan. I'm just saying, I hope the dude's outta the hospital for everyone's sake .......i.e., if the government is taking over the healthcare system, and if the healthcare system includes hospitals, then maybe the safest place for Glen Beck isn't necessarily a hospital, that's all.
post #42 of 58
Liberals come up with programs so wonderful, they have to force you to use them
Pelosi Health Care Plan: Pay Or Prison
By Bob Parks Saturday, November 7, 2009

Here’s a classic example of one of my most used Black & Rightisms: “Liberals come up with programs so wonderful, they have to force you to use them.” Obama dissed Hillary during the campaign for wanting to nationally implement the Massachusetts health care plan that fines people who choose (or can’t afford) not to acquire health insurance. So Nancy Pelosi’s plan goes one better: no insurance, go to jail.

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

Here’s the good stuff….
Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]
— Joint Committee on Taxation

It’s no wonder Speaker Pelosi decided not to release the bill for public inspection before the attempt to ram it down our throats.

It may not be Constitutional but what’s a simple, insignificant piece of paper when bully Democrats have their eyes on the prize.
post #43 of 58
2Shea, if they had details of HOW:
  1. This JOKE is going to be made "AFFORDABLE" and
  2. NOT raise taxes....
They could have shouted it from the roof tops!!!
  • It's called Sales & Marketing 101.
Since this information is missing, we can ASSUME
it does NOT exist.


The lack of LOGIC here is Astoundng !!!!
The Logic is:
  • Insurance hates it - let's get it.
  • THAT WILL POKE 'EM IN THE EYE.
post #44 of 58
In ancient Rome (or was it Greece?), there was some policy where each year the citizens would decide which politician (not an emperor or king, mind you) needed to be thrown out of office.

There were these large jugs or urns or whatever, randomly placed around the empire. Anyway, the people would scrawl the name of the senator (or similar government official) to be gotten rid of onto a small slab of stone and toss the slab into the jug.

Then these were collected and counted. The politician with the most votes was replaced (IIRC, he may have been replaced by a person similarly elected by the people).

Anyway, if we had a system like this in America, where, rain or shine, we're allowed to oust one undesirable politician each year, Pelosi would be out of a job.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by theone View Post
its been about time to 'clean house' for decades if not longer, but it ain't gonna happen, its too late, there is too much money involved, old money and ways of life passed down from generation to generation of 'scum bags' probably going back to before the time of Christ that you and I can not even comprehend, cleaning house means taking control of the money supply (taxpayers storming Washington will change nothing and the military will NOT take our side) and as long as McDonalds is serving burgers no one is gonna do anything but keep scoffing down those burgers and/or serve them... welcome to reality...

I hate to agree with you but you are right on the money with the above statements.
post #46 of 58
I want to see a report with stats on an average family of 4 that makes 50k per year. How will this affect them? They will be forced to buy insurance right? Thats like 23-28% of the total family income after taxes.

It appears to me that the "millions" without insurance are mostly from families like in the example who choose to not carry insurance. Why should they? 8,000 per year is too much..Just pay out of pocket as you go.

But if they are forced into this..can you say major instant big time depression? These miillions will instantly spend ZERO dollars except on bills and must haves.
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat View Post
I want to see a report with stats on an average family of 4 that makes 50k per year. How will this affect them? They will be forced to buy insurance right? Thats like 23-28% of the total family income after taxes.

It appears to me that the "millions" without insurance are mostly from families like in the example who choose to not carry insurance. Why should they? 8,000 per year is too much..Just pay out of pocket as you go.

But if they are forced into this..can you say major instant big time depression? These miillions will instantly spend ZERO dollars except on bills and must haves.
I read a number recently...

It adds $1,700 a year they MUST pay.
The brainless wonders that chortle about
BIG, BAD INSURANCE Co's getting shafted
by this ALSO have to start paying MORE
for consumer goods (Food - Clothing) to
cover the increased costs of doing business.

I hurts too much laugh at them but
at least I won't sink (Or a far) into the
Gov't-Created SEWER they voted for.


Oh, What the HELL !!!!



post #48 of 58
I can see the signs now...

"Homeless--need money, please give to pay for Healthcare bill or else I go to Jail and will cost you more money."



-w
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by theone View Post
I'm not under 30, I haven't been indoctinated by your public school system and I agree with alot of what you say, but I am also a realist and I know that money talks...
i was not claiming you are under 30...or indoctrinated...merely making an OPINIONATED statement...nothing personal, I assure you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Daleks View Post
Dude, please do not misinterpret my message. I'm a huge Beck fan. I'm just saying, I hope the dude's outta the hospital for everyone's sake .......i.e., if the government is taking over the healthcare system, and if the healthcare system includes hospitals, then maybe the safest place for Glen Beck isn't necessarily a hospital, that's all.
I like Beck too, and watch his FNC program every day so there's at least ONE commonality between us...and I "got" your jest at the GHC system...
However, Beck is the ubiquitous "armchair warrior"...who would likely retreat in the face of danger instead of defending the causes he rails about... aka: "PACIFIST"
He reminds me of guys who brag about how "tough" they are, then pass out at the sight of blood or shit themselves when they're pressed into an inescapable bare-knuckles fist fight!
People can badmouth the crooks and cronies til their blue in the face but unless they're willing to bring themselves physically into the battle, there being disingenuous...like Beck.
There's nothing more demoralizing than people who "talk the big fight" then cower at the "call to arms"...because they've been conditioned to think that it's hopeless or "too late".
IMO... IT'S NEVER TOO LATE! That's the best time to begin the fight!...while the enemies of the State are still "drunk" over their fake victories!

disclaimer: The above comments were a "generalization" only! I'm NOT making references to anyone specifically, except Glenn Beck, so don't get your knickers in a knot...

2SHEA
post #50 of 58
Does anyone see the hypocrisy with Obama asking for the senate to rush through the Obama/Pelosi Healthcare even though the facts arent fully understood, and yet he tells everyone to not jump to conclusions about the Fort Hood shooting...

“We don’t know all the answers yet, and I would caution against jumping to conclusions until we have all the facts.” -Obama regarding Ft Hood shooting

what a load of crap!
post #51 of 58
The good news is, this bill is going nowhere.

The Stupak amendment saw to that. With that amendment, they can no longer pay for abortions with government money through this new government boondoggle.

Thanks to Senator Lieberman, the Senate will have to remove the Public Option from the bill.

So, you'll have no public option and no abortion. The Democrats in the House won't stand by and allow that to happen. They will insist on putting them both back in, at least in conference when the Senate and the House get together to combine the two bills into one.

But if either of those two things are in the bill, it won't go through.

There's just no getting around it.

This bill is D.O.A.
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggi View Post
The good news is, this bill is going nowhere.

The Stupak amendment saw to that. With that amendment, they can no longer pay for abortions with government money through this new government boondoggle.

Thanks to Senator Lieberman, the Senate will have to remove the Public Option from the bill.

So, you'll have no public option and no abortion. The Democrats in the House won't stand by and allow that to happen. They will insist on putting them both back in, at least in conference when the Senate and the House get together to combine the two bills into one.

But if either of those two things are in the bill, it won't go through.

There's just no getting around it.

This bill is D.O.A.
The waiting period for abortions will be 2 years.
It needs a Euthanasia clause...


And death panels.





post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestSolver View Post
wow what a narrow minded point of view
What I said about republicans and insurance companies opposing the bill being a good sign is not my "point of view" on health care reform, it's just an observation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestSolver View Post
so over taxing the working class to pay for this is good?
By "working class", you mean people making over 500k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestSolver View Post
You actually believe as the DEMs do by having a larger government in control of every aspect of you life is better then the republicans views of a individual self guided life where the decisions you make are your choices? Once the government starts doing everything for us then our final freedoms are lost.
My reasons for supporting this health care bill have everything to do with health care... and nothing to do with overdramatic hyperbole. Not every choice we make is a decision between government controlling every aspect of your life, and individual liberty.

Furthermore, if the republican point of view is of an individual, self guided life, where the decisions you make are your choices, then where do they stand on a woman's right to choose, on gay marriage, or drug policy? Republicans haven't earned the "individual liberty badge", they just like to pretend as if they stand for freedom because it gets the rednecks all excited at campaign rallys.
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techunter View Post
On one side we have an argument based on more than 50 years
of historical data of what happens to a country when it embraces
Socialism. On the other side you got "Hope & Change" fueled by
personal greed rationalized as sound economics, if you cross your
fingers....


We all understand your hesitation to not make even ONE valid point.




.
Valid point? We're talking about health care legislation, and all you guys can do is go on about socialism. When your city created a municipal water supply, what happened to our country? When the federal government inspects food, builds a highway, or makes sure that a drug is safe prior to market, are we socialists? Conservatives have taken what should be a pragmatic debate about health care, and once again, tried to turn it into an inapplicable anti-socialism drama fest. You talk about "Hope and Change" being fueled by personal greed, forgetting that thousands of people die every year because the "personal greed" of insurance company boards is more important to them than covering treatment. When we're talking about services that our lives depend on, I like the idea of being able to vote on an issue or aspect related to it.
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by enickma View Post
Valid point? We're talking about health care legislation, and all you guys can do is go on about socialism. When your city created a municipal water supply, what happened to our country? When the federal government inspects food, builds a highway, or makes sure that a drug is safe prior to market, are we socialists? Conservatives have taken what should be a pragmatic debate about health care, and once again, tried to turn it into an inapplicable anti-socialism drama fest. You talk about "Hope and Change" being fueled by personal greed, forgetting that thousands of people die every year because the "personal greed" of insurance company boards is more important to them than covering treatment. When we're talking about services that our lives depend on, I like the idea of being able to vote on an issue or aspect related to it.
Administering the Hiway Dept. and the FDA didn't include
SOAKING the RICH in a jealous rage to pay MORE in taxes.
This PHONEY Class War is just a jealousy-based tax scam!
YES! SOCIALISM!

It also doesn't FORCE others to pay road taxes if they don't
own a car. Or threaten prison due to noncompliance of
NOT having HC insurance. Or be victim to ILLEGAL pricing
schemes Pelosi will employ to undercut the Insurance premiums
and making up the difference by taking money out of the
General fund. If a business did that to their competition,
The Corp Officers would go to jail. IT IS ILLEGAL! Pelosi &
Frank should both be in jail for what they have done!

The only HALF argument you have is crying about your
poor dying in the gutters. Trouble is, Anybody can walk
into an ER and be treated. They CAN'T be THROWN OUT,
either.

YOU have ignored on multiple instances now the key point
that MEDICARE is the WORST abuser of denying medical
treatment. Worse than those horrible Insurance cos.
Imagine these same people running Health Care. Think if
you Ignore it and it will go away?

DEMANDING this Poison Pill legislation is right up there
next to assisted suicide. Only people that can't get
a grip on their own lives and take care of personal
business would think it is a workable idea.







.
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techunter View Post
Administering the Hiway Dept. and the FDA didn't include SOAKING the RICH in a jealous rage to pay MORE in taxes.
This PHONEY Class War is just a jealousy-based tax scam!
YES! SOCIALISM!
The fairness of our progressive tax structure is a debate to have. Some would disagree with your assessment that the FDA and DOT's operations aren't funded by an unfair tax burden on the rich. I personally believe that the wealthy are unfairly taxed, and we should look at sales tax alternatives... but tax reform is an entirely separate discussion than healthcare, and trying to derail a health care reform effort, because it's funded based on the same principles as every other federal program is a distraction tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techunter View Post
It also doesn't FORCE others to pay road taxes if they don't
own a car. Or threaten prison due to noncompliance of
NOT having HC insurance. Or be victim to ILLEGAL pricing
schemes Pelosi will employ to undercut the Insurance premiums
and making up the difference by taking money out of the
General fund. If a business did that to their competition,
The Corp Officers would go to jail. IT IS ILLEGAL! Pelosi &
Frank should both be in jail for what they have done!
There are certainly costs associated with roads that are suffered by the non-driver. But seriously...what percentage of US Adults, don't drive? Most states have car insurance mandates. There are also rules and consequences involved with the use of roads. You are threatened with prison if you are non-compliant on the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techunter View Post
The only HALF argument you have is crying about your
poor dying in the gutters. Trouble is, Anybody can walk
into an ER and be treated. They CAN'T be THROWN OUT,
either.
Are we talking about fixing a broken arm here, or are we talking about advanced cancer drugs that cost thousands of dollars per dose? Can anyone walk into the ER and get those treatment programs? Also, you act as if that's an acceptable status quo...it's not. Using ERs for last minute doctors offices is a terribly costly practice that we all end up paying for in the end.

Quote:
YOU have ignored on multiple instances now the key point
that MEDICARE is the WORST abuser of denying medical
treatment. Worse than those horrible Insurance cos.
Imagine these same people running Health Care. Think if
you Ignore it and it will go away?
Why ignore it? At least we have the opportunity to vote on the issue. Do you have the opportunity to vote out your health insurance company's board every couple of years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techunter View Post
DEMANDING this Poison Pill legislation is right up there
next to assisted suicide. Only people that can't get
a grip on their own lives and take care of personal
business would think it is a workable idea.
Like the people who work their ass off, and pay out the ass for thier insurance policy, only to have their coverage denied when they actually need to use it.... it's their fault because they couldn't "get a grip on their own lives"? It must be easy to maintain conservative principles when you dismiss hard working Americans, deserving of consumer protections, as lazy welfare recipients with their hands out, looking for a free ride. Burying your head in the sand isn't going to fix a broken and abused system.
post #57 of 58
All I'm hearing is,
"Support this NO MATTER THE COST
or you HATE poor people!"

It's an emotional response.
Logic 101 College courses Teaches
Emotions poison the facts.
Quote:
Are we talking about fixing a broken arm here, or are we talking about advanced cancer drugs that cost thousands of dollars per dose? Can anyone walk into the ER and get those treatment programs?
They do.

Shirl tells us he got cancer treatments while unemployed.
He got better care than some insured! Here's the deal:
Some insureds have had meds and procedures refused in
lieu of CHEAPER methods. In spite of how inappropriate it
is - even to the point of dying because of it! Have you
been refused? Quit your job and go on welfare... Then
head to the hospital! Years of Gov't intervention has
screwed things so bad that this is the method. Thanks
for advocating more of the same!

The new laws will require a waiting period for UNINSURED.
A 6 month wait will KILL the most seriously ill.

MEDICARE IS THE WORST.

This discussion should be over just on that comment and
a new one for a program to cure the problems described
above should take place. We don't need to cover ALL
PEOPLE - just those in need! FIX WHAT IS BROKEN!



.
post #58 of 58
I'm also getting sick of the Auto insurance comparison!
His Royal Assholiness o'Bama used it TODAY!!


Get Auto Insurance or we DON'T DRIVE.

Get Health Insurance or we DON'T LET YOU LIVE.



How are the two the same?



.
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