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Doctor says near-death experiences are in the mind - Page 8

post #141 of 175
11/15/09 at 12:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNiMiTe Dani View Post
I experience sleep paralysis quite often, usually when I am dreaming about specific things. One of my biggest fears is ghosts/demons. It has been my greatest fear since I was a child and I have yet to shake it and I am 22 :-/. I have recurring nightmares about demons and those dreams are when I experience sleep paralysis. This is absolutely terrifying for me because not only am I dreaming about my worst fear (which seems so real) I am also paralyzed. I recognize that I am dreaming and fight to wake myself up but this is a process. If I am sleeping next to a person, I yell for that person until they wake me up or I am able to wake myself up. Once I am finally awake, I am so terrified from my dream and being paralyzed that I don’t want to go back to sleep. Not to mention my heart is beating out of my chest .
I sorry to hear that these experiances are so scary for you. You might try to flip it around next time. Instead of focusing on the part that is out of your control for the moment (your body) forcus on the part that you are in control of (your mind).
Because your consciousness has surfaced before your body has reconnected, as Jaz suggested, you now have the ability to manipulate your dream. It will take practice, but if you challange yourself to "dispell' those demons, or at least train yourself to recognize that they are not real, you may be able to put a whole new face to the dream that has terrified you since childhood. Just a thought, might be worth a try?? Remember there is nothing supernatural going on it is just a temperary time delay between your mind waking up and your body waking up. you are not seeing into any otherworldly realms. It's just a dream.
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post #142 of 175
11/15/09 at 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rishodi View Post
Your mind is in a conscious state, but your body is asleep, leaving you in a state somewhere between the two. The wiki article I posted before explains some of the science behind how this happens.

As I said, I always dream in a first-person perspective when it happens. Usually this means that I can see everything around me as I'm sleeping. The dream is always lucid and feels extremely realistic. For a while I thought something very weird was happening, like perhaps I was sleeping with my eyes open, with my brain processing the visual image of everything around me while my body is still asleep and unable to move. Eventually I realized that this wasn't the case, because the images I see in the dream do not always match up properly to the real world. Just a few weeks ago I experienced sleep paralysis for several minutes, and I was fighting to wake myself up because I needed to get to work. When I woke up, I realized that the position of the chair next to me was several feet removed from where it was in my dream while I was experiencing paralysis. While my body was asleep and my eyes were closed, my brain, awake but unable to make my body move, was simply doing its best to reproduce an image of the room for me. The first time that I realized that this image was flawed -- as they often, but not always, are -- I realized that I was most certainly dreaming and what I saw was not visually real.

The possibility remains that one day I will experience such a dream from a third-person perspective, which will qualify as an out-of-body experience as described by so many people who have been through the experience before. I'm not opposed to the experience; rather, it would only give me an even better perspective on the matter. I have not purposefully tried to move to a third-person view during sleep paralysis, but I might do just that next time. One of the YouTube videos I posted earlier in this thread is of James Randi, world-famous skeptic, explaining how he went through an out-of-body experience, and how he realized that it was just a dream, in like fashion to how I realized that I am only dreaming when I experience sleep paralysis.

Sleep paralysis used to be scary because when I was a child, I thought I was having some sort of supernatural experience. Long ago, people used to think that sleep paralysis was caused by demons. Sometime after I realized there was no reason to believe in anything supernatural, and there was a perfectly rational explanation for sleep paralysis, it lost its fear factor for me. Like I said, it usually happens to me when I'm on a tight schedule and have an hour or less to nap, which prevents me mentally from falling into a deep sleep. I end up sitting there, fully conscious of the fact that I'm asleep, thinking that I'd better wake up soon but being unable to force myself to do so. The only scary thing for me when it happens now is that I'm fully aware that I might be unable to prevent myself from oversleeping and could miss a class or a meeting as a result.
Thanks for your post, Rishodi. It’s an interesting theory, but I disagree with it. Let me tell you why, ok?

I know that I am not asleep when this happens to me, because I know the difference between being asleep & being out of my body.
I have been hypnotized. I am a good subject. Within minutes, I can feel my eyeballs moving all over the place. That doesn’t happen when I am in the paralyzed state or out of my body.

The reason I have decided to post about this is to help people like you, who have experienced sleep paralysis. I wouldn’t think of starting the subject with someone who has not had your experiences. They would think that I was nuts.
However, you I hope will have an open mind and consider what I have to say.

When you mention the chair being a few feet away. Have you considered that you were seeing the chair from you astral eyes, not your physical eyes, which would account for seeing the chair from a different reference point? Your astral body could have been floating near your physical body. This has happened to me before while being in the paralyzed state.
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post #143 of 175
11/15/09 at 12:54am
Rishodi, if you would like to have an obe where you can see your physical body, simply relax the next time you find yourself in a paralyzed state. And when you breathe out, try to feel yourself falling or floating up (whatever works for you).
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post #144 of 175
11/15/09 at 12:58am
Thread Starter 
Or, achieve an OBE like I do...have sex with a really hot chick!
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post #145 of 175
11/15/09 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...Jaz View Post
Or, achieve an OBE like I do...have sex with a really hot chick!
Whatever works for you Jaz. I try to keep an open mind.
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post #146 of 175
11/15/09 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNiMiTe Dani View Post
I experience sleep paralysis quite often, usually when I am dreaming about specific things. One of my biggest fears is ghosts/demons. It has been my greatest fear since I was a child and I have yet to shake it and I am 22 :-/. I have recurring nightmares about demons and those dreams are when I experience sleep paralysis. This is absolutely terrifying for me because not only am I dreaming about my worst fear (which seems so real) I am also paralyzed. I recognize that I am dreaming and fight to wake myself up but this is a process. If I am sleeping next to a person, I yell for that person until they wake me up or I am able to wake myself up. Once I am finally awake, I am so terrified from my dream and being paralyzed that I don’t want to go back to sleep. Not to mention my heart is beating out of my chest .
It more than likely has to do with stress. I used to have those problems and used to freak out when it happened. it sucks because you can hear so many things in that moment in time when you try to move but can't. It's dam scary, but I reduced my stress (as awkward as it sounds being in school).


The best option imo, is to reduce stress....that is nonspecific, but if you're anxious or always thinking about stuff, it willl harm your sleep patterns because you are focused or constantly thinking about things when you don't need to be. There was a stint when i had it for 2 years and it used to drive my x-gf nuts. I get it sometimes if i feel ill prepared for an exam.
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post #147 of 175
11/15/09 at 6:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie View Post
Whatever works for you Jaz. I try to keep an open mind.
Sooo...you're saying you're willing to try having sex with a really hot chick? WOOOHOOO!
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post #148 of 175
11/15/09 at 10:31pm
Oh Wow, hope Im not too late...
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post #149 of 175
11/15/09 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie View Post
Whatever works for you Jaz. I try to keep an open mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...Jaz View Post
Sooo...you're saying you're willing to try having sex with a really hot chick? WOOOHOOO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BranRx View Post
Oh Wow, hope Im not too late...
Okay you guys. You're funny.

But while you're making fun, my questions to Rishodi or DaNiMiTe Dani are being lost back in the thread. And I am genuinely trying to help them learn to have an out of body experience.

I understand that you don't believe any of this, and that's totally okay with me. As I have said before, I wonder about people who claim to have been kidnapped by aliens.
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post #150 of 175
11/15/09 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie View Post
Whatever works for you Jaz. I try to keep an open mind.
Is your open mind open to the idea that you're wrong and that "out of body" experiences exist only in those open minds?
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post #151 of 175
11/16/09 at 12:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassix View Post
It more than likely has to do with stress. I used to have those problems and used to freak out when it happened. it sucks because you can hear so many things in that moment in time when you try to move but can't. It's dam scary, but I reduced my stress (as awkward as it sounds being in school).

The best option imo, is to reduce stress....that is nonspecific, but if you're anxious or always thinking about stuff, it willl harm your sleep patterns because you are focused or constantly thinking about things when you don't need to be. There was a stint when i had it for 2 years and it used to drive my x-gf nuts. I get it sometimes if i feel ill prepared for an exam.
Bassix, you, Rishodi, DaNiMiTe Dani & all have something in common. We have all experienced sleep paralysis. The difference between you and me is that I know that sleep paralysis is something which can happen as you are leaving your body. And what I am attempting to do, is give you guys the information you need to avoid getting stuck in sleep paralysis & move on to having an out of body experience.

I am not trying to help anyone other than someone who has at least experienced sleep paralysis. I believe that a person's chance to have certain abilities such as for example a concert pianist, is very much due to genetics.

Since I know that sleep paralysis can preclude an out of body experience, I am assuming that if you are able to be aware of the sleep paralysis, then you will be able to be aware of the out of body experience which can follow it.

I would also like to add that whether through sleep paralysis or not, it is through relaxation, and not stress which precludes an out of body experience. I have experienced sleep paralysis & astral projection since I was a child.

Except for my father, every member in my family has experienced the same to varying degrees. Although my oldest brother (the oldest child) didn't experience it until he was an adult. He told us recently that when he would watch us sitting around the dinner table talking about our experiences he thought that we were absolutely nuts. Now that he has had an experience, he is always asking us questions.
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post #152 of 175
11/16/09 at 12:35am
Thread Starter 
Okay...let's say, for the sake of argument, that certain people have do have the ability to OBE. Specifically you, Janie.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming that people who have successfully OBE'd, they are able to control what they are able to do whilst in the process.

Here's a couple of things I'd like you to do, or anyone who claims they have the ability to OBE. Visit my house while we are asleep. I'm taking a leap of faith that one can find me using whatever aura attraction, or signal, or whatever. Tell me what my house looks like, it's layout, my bedroom, and any other detail you can observe.

Another thing I would like to know, and these would be totally acceptable if my assumption is wrong about being able to locate specific people, is to go inside of the sun and describe what it's like. The nuclear reactive chemicals burning and exploding, the color, even any smells. Another location I'd like someone to visit is one of Saturn's moons, Europa. Scientists claim that it's the next best shot at discovering life on an extraterrestrial planet. Find out if they're right or wrong, please. Then, in a decade or so, we can compare notes when they send a probe to Europa.

Could you do that for me? Oh, just another thought. If you are able to find me, and anyone else specific, it would be good if you could locate Osama Bin Laden. I would really appreciate it.
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post #153 of 175
11/16/09 at 5:10am
Jaz, did you read the bold print in my previous posts? I'm not interested in trying to convince anyone of astral projection.

You are wrong to assume that people who have successfully had out of body experiences are always able to control what they do. Sometimes you have no control, for example similar to the paralyzed state where you are not able to move.

It is interesting that you brought up someone visiting your house. My sister, who is able to meditate & leave her body, completely freaked-out her boy friend by doing just what you ask. She suggested that I try it. The next time I was out of my body, I thought of my boyfriend, and the next thing I knew I was standing outside of his bedroom door at this home. It freaked me out & I snapped back into my body.
This sort of thing isn't that interesting, once you know that you can do it.

As far as going into the sun or checking out Saturn's moon, even though I know that I probably could do it, I have no interest in doing it. I have looked at the stars from the top of my roof while out of my body. And that is exactly what I thought of.. going out there. But to me, just hanging out on top of the roof on a summer night, with the breeze moving all about me.. sensing everything with all of my senses is enough for which to be grateful.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to find that our government and others have people adept at astral projection trying to locate Osama Bin Laden.

Again Jaz, I am not attempting to convince anyone of astral projection. I think I made my intentions clear in my previous post. I say this with kindness.

And I say so because I know that it would be almost impossible to convince anyone. Had I not had the experience, I wouldn't believe it!
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post #154 of 175
11/16/09 at 9:24am
Quote:
And I say so because I know that it would be almost impossible to convince anyone
Now you're just talking nonesense. He's telling you how he can be convinced and you're telling him you're not interested in convincing him.
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post #155 of 175
11/16/09 at 9:29am
Heh, I just read through about half of this thread where you've tried your hardest to convince us that Astral Projection is not only real, but taken seriously by serious people, Universities, etc. All along the way you've argued that it's real.

Now that you've been asked to put up or shut up, you've chosen to shut up. Wise decision.
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post #156 of 175
11/16/09 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie View Post
[B]What "demons" are you talking about? Are you seeing entities? Because I can share with you what a para-psychologist told me about my negative experiences which I have had in the past while being caught in that paralyzed state.
Yes, during these dreams I am seeing entities. I refer to them as demons (i.e. evil spirits because that is what they seem like to me). They are black, and their faces are unclear. Once they appear in my dreams is when I go into a paralyzed state. They surround my body, get into my face, and taunt me. These dreams are usually really loud, with multiple sounds going on at the same time.
I try to tell myself that I must dream about them because it is my worst fear and it must have a correlation to stress. Although, I believe in evil spirits and sometimes I think that I am being haunted through my dreams. It may sound crazy to some, but this is a big deal and it causes me to be sleep deprived.
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post #157 of 175
11/16/09 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janie View Post
And I say so because I know that it would be almost impossible to convince anyone. Had I not had the experience, I wouldn't believe it!
The funny thing is, I think you would believe regardless. You strike me as the kind of person that wants to believe in stuff like this.

Baggi has succinctly stated it well. Have you the ability to go where you please, you would dispel any skepticism about OBE/astral projecting by complying to my request. What would be more convincing of it's authenticity than to visit someone's house and describe it? That alone would be enough to convince me, and probably everyone on here, that it is possible to OBE/astral project. Why would you not want that vindication?

You're lack of willingness to participate suggests to me that you yourself have no conviction.
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post #158 of 175
11/16/09 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponyup View Post
I sorry to hear that these experiances are so scary for you. You might try to flip it around next time. Instead of focusing on the part that is out of your control for the moment (your body) forcus on the part that you are in control of (your mind). Because your consciousness has surfaced before your body has reconnected, as Jaz suggested, you now have the ability to manipulate your dream.
Thank you for the advice. I have trained myself to recognize that I am dreaming, I will now begin to teach myself to control my thoughts, let the process begin!
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post #159 of 175
11/16/09 at 5:55pm
Thread Starter 
I don't believe in OBE/astral projecting, but I do believe in lucid dreams, and ones ability to control your own actions. For me though, once I have realized that I am dreaming, I become conscious so I never truly get to the stage where I can control what I do. I have been in dreams where I know I was dreaming but I am not fully in control of what I do. Once I am able to get to the point where I am beginning to control what I do, like I said, I become conscious and brought out of sleep.

What's neat, is sometimes when I awake from a state like that, sometimes I am able to fall back asleep and pick up in the dream where I left off.
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post #160 of 175
11/16/09 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...Jaz View Post
I don't believe in OBE/astral projecting, but I do believe in lucid dreams, and ones ability to control your own actions.
I agree 100%. I have experianced lucid dreams often. I think that when this happens, the dream seems more real, because you are perceiving it with your consious mind, which is predisposed to inturpret things as reality. Your mind is sending you misinformation.

I can see how someone who wants to believe in such things as OBE/A-P could believe they are experiancing such. Particularly if the person has a habit of rationalizng bad information to fit their beliefs. When you do this, you are acutally training your mind to be more gullible. IMO

Someone who has trained thier mind to be more skeptical (by continuing to adapt their beliefs based on new informaition) will have an easier time seeing lucid dreams for what they are. It takes real effort to convince yourself that it is not real. It can be done. I am able to apply some control after I determine it's a dream. I can sort of "switch channels" by thinking of something else.

I feel that adapting your beliefs to fit the information will always serve you better than adapting the information to fit your beliefs. JMHO
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