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A Few Newbie Questions

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Hi guys. I’m relatively new to stock trading, and I had a few questions that I’m hoping somebody will be able to answer. Tried to search the forums to see if they’ve already been answered, but I either couldn’t find anything or I still was unclear on the subject matter.

In any case, here’s my first question. Why are “sell short” and “buy to cover” their own separate options when you trade stocks? I think I understand the basic concepts behind each term, but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just use the standard “sell” option to sell high and the standard “buy” option to buy it back when it falls later. Is there something flawed with my logic here?

My second question is more of a scenario. I’m hearing a lot of things about having to have at least $2000 equity if you have a margin account, but I’ve also heard that you can still have less than that, but you just won’t be able to borrow funds on margin. Assuming that the latter is true, would I be able to do the following?
-Open up a new margin account and deposit $1000.
-Buy $800 worth of a stock on Tuesday
-Sell all $800 of that same stock on the next day (Wednesday)
-Buy $900 of another stock on that same day (Wednesday)
-Sell all $900 of Stock B on the day after (Thursday)
Would I be able to even do this without being tagged as a day-trader?

My final question involves tax on stocks. I’m a 20-year-old college student who makes less than $10,000 per year with no dependents. With this in mind, let’s say I buy five shares of a stock that is at $10. The next day, I sell all five shares for $20. If we factor in broker commission fees (let’s say $5 each way), I’d be left with $40 (100 – 50 – 10). First of all, are taxes and the broker fees the only fees/taxes/charges that I need to worry about here? Secondly, how much of the $40 that I have left would I expect to be taxed for?

Whew. I know I have a lot of stuff here, and most of it probably sounds very dumb to most of you guys, but I would really appreciate any insight that anyone would have to these things. Thanks again.
post #2 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thought of one more.

I know that you will be tagged as a pattern day-trader if you day-trade four times within five days, but what if I do it three or less times? Is there a "partial day-trader" designation for those kinds of people? And with that, are there any restrictions brought on?
post #3 of 17
you can make money trading either buy low sell high, or sell high buy low...
regarding to the margin account, if you have 25k, you can day trade how many times u want, but if you have less than 25k, u can only day trade no more than 4 times in five business day.. if u violate the rule, u account will be in hold for 90 days.
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sogotrade View Post
you can make money trading either buy low sell high, or sell high buy low...
regarding to the margin account, if you have 25k, you can day trade how many times u want, but if you have less than 25k, u can only day trade no more than 4 times in five business day.. if u violate the rule, u account will be in hold for 90 days.

Sincerely
Yes, but couldn't you just do that with the standard "buy" and "sell" options? Why are there separate options for "sell short" and "buy to cover?"

And what happens if I day trade less than four times in five business days? Is that okay, or does that simply bring on a different set of rules?
post #5 of 17
Actually it's 3 day trades in a rolling 5 day period.
post #6 of 17
yes, as long as u don't surpass 3 day trades. 3 is ok, but 4 is no. for example, buy c today, sell c today means 1 day trade. sell short c today, buy to cover c today that means 1 day trade, too. just make note of it, don't day trades if you don't really have to (if you have less than 25k).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tua97784 View Post
Yes, but couldn't you just do that with the standard "buy" and "sell" options? Why are there separate options for "sell short" and "buy to cover?"

And what happens if I day trade less than four times in five business days? Is that okay, or does that simply bring on a different set of rules?
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by tua97784 View Post
In any case, here’s my first question. Why are “sell short” and “buy to cover” their own separate options when you trade stocks? I think I understand the basic concepts behind each term, but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just use the standard “sell” option to sell high and the standard “buy” option to buy it back when it falls later. Is there something flawed with my logic here?
I guess you're asking why the software you're using to trade with has these options? Most likely it's just so you don't make a mistake and think you're selling a stock you already own and to make it clear you are shorting a stock. Some broker's software just have "Buy" and "Sell" buttons and work the way you mentioned, e.g., thinkorswim.


Quote:
My final question involves tax on stocks. I’m a 20-year-old college student who makes less than $10,000 per year with no dependents. With this in mind, let’s say I buy five shares of a stock that is at $10. The next day, I sell all five shares for $20. If we factor in broker commission fees (let’s say $5 each way), I’d be left with $40 (100 – 50 – 10). First of all, are taxes and the broker fees the only fees/taxes/charges that I need to worry about here?
Basically. You'll be charged a few pennies by your broker (literally) on all "Sell" executions that goes to the SEC.

Quote:
Secondly, how much of the $40 that I have left would I expect to be taxed for?
You made $40 profit, so you'll be taxed on it. Profit made on stocks that were held less than one year (short-term capital gains) are taxed the same as regular income. Assuming you're single and this year you make between $8,350 and 33,950, you'll be in the 15% tax bracket (you'll pay $6 for Federal taxes). If you make below $8,350, you'll be in the 10% tax bracket. (These numbers are for 2009 and may change in future years).
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scraff View Post
You made $40 profit, so you'll be taxed on it. Profit made on stocks that were held less than one year (short-term capital gains) are taxed the same as regular income. Assuming you're single and this year you make between $8,350 and 33,950, you'll be in the 15% tax bracket (you'll pay $6 for Federal taxes). If you make below $8,350, you'll be in the 10% tax bracket. (These numbers are for 2009 and may change in future years).
Whew! That relieves some stress. I thought I was gonna be FUBAR come tax season.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your replies, guys. I really appreciate it.
post #10 of 17
Actually, how much you make on one specific trade has no bearing on your taxes, it's your net total for the year. Whatever you make on the year, add it to your other income, then you are taxed depending on the bracket you fall into.
post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post
Actually, how much you make on one specific trade has no bearing on your taxes, it's your net total for the year. Whatever you make on the year, add it to your other income, then you are taxed depending on the bracket you fall into.
Can you deduct losses if you're down for the year? Not that I'm worried, just curious.
post #12 of 17
http://www.fairmark.com/capgain/capgain.htm

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mone...t-taxes-1.aspx

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mone...t-taxes-1.aspx

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p550/ch04.html

Check with your tax preparer/CPA. You may benefit further by filing as being a self employed employee/sole proprietor business as a trader. There are a number of tax benefits filing this way- profit and loss.

But, with each transaction, you need to determine your basis; this is very important, and you'll need to keep track of this year after year if you decide to hold long. Once you sell, you need to subtracted your basis from the sale to determine your income from the sale of it- thus your net capital gain.
post #13 of 17
LOL you cannot determine ur TAXES yet as the laws are changing for the 2009 season.
I would just go with the standard rates, unless you want to screw urself in the end.
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post
Actually, how much you make on one specific trade has no bearing on your taxes, it's your net total for the year.
I'm not sure what you;re saying here. The OP wanted to know how much he'd pay on a trade that netted him a $40 profit. The answer I gave him is based on how much he predicted he'd make this year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mjoke View Post
LOL you cannot determine ur TAXES yet as the laws are changing for the 2009 season.
Sure you can. The tax brackets for the 2009 season are already set. What laws are changing?


Quote:
I would just go with the standard rates, unless you want to screw urself in the end.
What standard rates? How can he screw himself?
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scraff View Post
I'm not sure what you;re saying here. The OP wanted to know how much he'd pay on a trade that netted him a $40 profit. The answer I gave him is based on how much he predicted he'd make this year.
I just wanted to make it clear that you're not taxed on an individual trade basis. If he only made that one trade and he netted $40 from trading for the year, then he'd be taxed on that $40. If he made more trades and for the year he was negative on them in total, he wouldn't be paying taxes. My point was don't try to figure out your taxes on an individual trade basis, it's the net amount of profits or losses on the year that's important.
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtwichert View Post
Can you deduct losses if you're down for the year? Not that I'm worried, just curious.
Up to $3k for that year.
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
Just to clarify, if I day-trade three or fewer times in a five-day period, are there any negative ramifications (assuming I have a margin account)?
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