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Gay marriage defeat in CA - Page 6

post #101 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat View Post
I'm done with this thread for now.
But what if I'm into sheep?

I'm done with this thread too...
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post #102 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuestSolver View Post
see we can agree on something
You missed the question mark at the end of that... I don't believe in Christians period... only the illusion of Christianity.
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post #103 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:43pm
Baloney. You didn't choose to be a heterosexual. You are telling me when your reached puberty, you consciously decided, "Hmmm, I think I'll be a heterosexual." When you grew up, you were attracted to females (if you are a male) and started going out with them. Therefore you are a heterosexual.

In my entire life, I have never heard of a guy or women ever say anything remotely like, "I chose to be heterosexual when I grew up." I knew before I hit puberty I liked females. There was no deciding or choosing about it. I suspect it's the same way with homosexuals.

Jeez... is your thinking screwed-up.

Guapo

Quote:
Originally Posted by whinny View Post
Of course I chose to be heterosexual. Homosexuality is repulsive to me. As far as the work analogy, that is a lame argument because we are speaking of things that you are not forced to do. No one is forced to have gay sex. They choose to have it because again, they like it. Find someone who is gay and ask them if they hate gay sex. You won't find anyone who is gay who hates gay sex. They choose it because they like it. OK, I'm done here with this thread.
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post #104 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkeysmalls View Post
And your everlasting contribution, you can't short pennies.
Ok, go try to short a penny stock!!
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post #105 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkeysmalls View Post
Really? No hopes of recovering, huh?
If you are talking about drug addicts, of course there is a chance of addicts recovering. Never said that, never even mentioned it. It wasn't even part of the discussion that was going on.

If you're talking about gays recovering. Nah, no chance. If you're gay, you gay for life, just like heterosexuals are heterosexuals for life.

No chance of your recovering all the cash you lost on CSHD, either.
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post #106 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:52pm
Journeyman98,

Yeah, it was the most addictive Kool Aid I've ever seen.

Guapo


Quote:
Originally Posted by Journeyman98 View Post
sad sad times. but he did poor some good
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post #107 of 187
11/6/08 at 7:55pm
Thread Starter 
All and all, these judges need to go.
We are losing our rights, and by we I mean the majority, the "normal thinkers".
Of course humans of color and gender should be treated equally, but man! I have never seen such blatant unfairness to people who just think normally.

These judges are pieces of crap and to everyone out there these next four years will be bad for everyone, our constitutional rights are going to fly right out the window.

Get ready to carry a universal ID card and be marked and watched. How un-AMERICAN is that? How wrong is that in general.
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post #108 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
Baloney. You didn't choose to be a heterosexual. You are telling me when your reached puberty, you consciously decided, "Hmmm, I think I'll be a heterosexual." When you grew up, you were attracted to females (if you are a male) and started going out with them. Therefore you are a heterosexual.

In my entire life, I have never heard of a guy or women ever say anything remotely like, "I chose to be heterosexual when I grew up." I knew before I hit puberty I liked females. There was no deciding or choosing about it. I suspect it's the same way with homosexuals.

Jeez... is your thinking screwed-up.

Guapo
So why then do a higher percent of kids who grow up with gay parents turn out to be gay?

I suppose it has nothing to do with how your mind formed when it was young. And why do most guys like thin hot blondes? I suppose that has nothing to do with what we see on TV etc? Your brainwashed throughout life wether you want it or not.

Like the other poster said, most girls would never even think about kissing another girl, not until it's put in their head by a celebrity or someone else. Just like most kids would avoid drugs until a "friend" is doing it and they get suckered in.

If you brainwash kids from early on the being gay is OK and they are no different than a normal married couple then there brains will think different as they grow up. And more will end up gay. Just like more men end up liking hot blondes.

I do not see how you can argue with this but I'm sure you will.

Oh wait I was supposed to be done here LOL... Got tired of working I guess.
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post #109 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
Baloney. You didn't choose to be a heterosexual. You are telling me when your reached puberty, you consciously decided, "Hmmm, I think I'll be a heterosexual." When you grew up, you were attracted to females (if you are a male) and started going out with them. Therefore you are a heterosexual.

In my entire life, I have never heard of a guy or women ever say anything remotely like, "I chose to be heterosexual when I grew up." I knew before I hit puberty I liked females. There was no deciding or choosing about it. I suspect it's the same way with homosexuals.

Jeez... is your thinking screwed-up.

Guapo
I agree exactly with this statement! I used to live downtown Chicago and had some gay friends. Every one of them knew that they were gay before they even thought about it. None of them wanted to be gay. Why would someone willingly want to be something that society opposes? It's just too damn hard. Life is hard enough already.

The people that go against their own sexual urges are shamed into it by their religion. That's why so many closeted gays are Republicans. Look at Barney Frank. He's openly gay. There shouldn't be anything to hide.

I personally don't know what the big deal is about marriage. My feeling is that "marriage" is a religious thing. Why would someone want to belong to a set of beliefs that despises them? I do however think that homosexuals should have the same government rights as married couples and that's what they should be pushing for instead of "marriage".

I think that gay rights are the civil rights of our time. 20 years from now, people are going to be looking back, just like they look back at segregation, and they'll wonder what the hell people were thinking.
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post #110 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat View Post
So why then do a higher percent of kids who grow up with gay parents turn out to be gay?
Did you pull this out of your ass?

Do you know any homosexuals? If so, have you ever talked to them? Just curious..

As far as being "gay", I don't think that any of these girls that do the "girls gone wild" tapes count. They are probably just doing this because guys think that girl on girl action is hot. Just because they participate in homosexual acts, it doesn't mean that they are a homosexual.
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post #111 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat View Post
So why then do a higher percent of kids who grow up with gay parents turn out to be gay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpallas View Post
Did you pull this out of your ass?

Do you know any homosexuals? If so, have you ever talked to them? Just curious..

As far as being "gay", I don't think that any of these girls that do the "girls gone wild" tapes count. They are probably just doing this because guys think that girl on girl action is hot. Just because they participate in homosexual acts, it doesn't mean that they are a homosexual.
I agree, there is no statistical data to support Bigcat's claim. I have to say that when I was in High School my best friend's father came out of the closet, but the family had always been suspicious. Only when he retired from the military did he finally feel safe to come out. Anyways, my best friend, having been raised by a gay person all growing up as his father always had feminine mannerisms, was never influenced by those mannerisms and my best friend and I couldn't have been bigger horn-dogs for chicks. You don't "choose" to be gay or not. You can't fight it, and if you choose to fight it you are doing more psychological harm to yourself rather than just accepting it and adjusting your lifestyle to it. You know, there are very productive gays out there that don't flaunt it the way you probably feel the stereotypical gay does in your mind. Once everyone gets past this prejudism against gays, gays included, the better we will all be and move forward to a more cooperative, productive society.
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post #112 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpallas View Post
I agree exactly with this statement! I used to live downtown Chicago and had some gay friends. Every one of them knew that they were gay before they even thought about it. None of them wanted to be gay. Why would someone willingly want to be something that society opposes? It's just too damn hard. Life is hard enough already.

The people that go against their own sexual urges are shamed into it by their religion. That's why so many closeted gays are Republicans. Look at Barney Frank. He's openly gay. There shouldn't be anything to hide.

I personally don't know what the big deal is about marriage. My feeling is that "marriage" is a religious thing. Why would someone want to belong to a set of beliefs that despises them? I do however think that homosexuals should have the same government rights as married couples and that's what they should be pushing for instead of "marriage".

I think that gay rights are the civil rights of our time. 20 years from now, people are going to be looking back, just like they look back at segregation, and they'll wonder what the hell people were thinking.

Why do kids dress all in black?
Why do some cover up in tatoos?
Why do others stretch their ears?
Why do some choose to wait until after marriage to have sex?
Everyone does something thats "hard" and that others oppose....So do not act like gays are gay because what they do is opposed.

And I agree on your marriage view. Why do they want it? It is a religious thing. I never understood why anyone who is already having sex would want to get married. It means very little to someone unless they are religious.

But that just shows once again that Christians can not have anything good left alone. Everything must be corrupted in some form. And someone is always discriminated against.

Like the gays not being allowed in the boy scouts LOL. Why can't a Christian group have rules? If I could not join a gay club who the hell would listen to me if I cried about it? right, no one.
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post #113 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:36pm
I have to disagree about the views of marriage in this topic. I don't believe it's a religious thing. I believe it's a societal, customary, ceremonial thing.

Here's something I found on the net to help support my belief of separation of marriage and religion (I'm sure there are others that will find material to help their personal view that marriage and religion are intimately intertwined):

Quote:
The origins of marriage
The institution of marriage is now the subject of a bitter national debate. How did marriage begin—and why?

How old is the institution?
The best available evidence suggests that it’s about 4,350 years old. For thousands of years before that, most anthropologists believe, families consisted of loosely organized groups of as many as 30 people, with several male leaders, multiple women shared by them, and children. As hunter-gatherers settled down into agrarian civilizations, society had a need for more stable arrangements. The first recorded evidence of marriage ceremonies uniting one woman and one man dates from about 2350 B.C., in Mesopotamia. Over the next several hundred years, marriage evolved into a widespread institution embraced by the ancient Hebrews, Greeks, and Romans. But back then, marriage had little to do with love or with religion.

What was it about, then?
Marriage’s primary purpose was to bind women to men, and thus guarantee that a man’s children were truly his biological heirs. Through marriage, a woman became a man’s property. In the betrothal ceremony of ancient Greece, a father would hand over his daughter with these words: “I pledge my daughter for the purpose of producing legitimate offspring.” Among the ancient Hebrews, men were free to take several wives; married Greeks and Romans were free to satisfy their sexual urges with concubines, prostitutes, and even teenage male lovers, while their wives were required to stay home and tend to the household. If wives failed to produce offspring, their husbands could give them back and marry someone else.

When did religion become involved?
As the Roman Catholic Church became a powerful institution in Europe, the blessings of a priest became a necessary step for a marriage to be legally recognized. By the eighth century, marriage was widely accepted in the Catholic church as a sacrament, or a ceremony to bestow God’s grace. At the Council of Trent in 1563, the sacramental nature of marriage was written into canon law.

Did this change the nature of marriage?
Church blessings did improve the lot of wives. Men were taught to show greater respect for their wives, and forbidden from divorcing them. Christian doctrine declared that “the twain shall be one flesh,” giving husband and wife exclusive access to each other’s body. This put new pressure on men to remain sexually faithful. But the church still held that men were the head of families, with their wives deferring to their wishes.

When did love enter the picture?
Later than you might think. For much of human history, couples were brought together for practical reasons, not because they fell in love. In time, of course, many marriage partners came to feel deep mutual love and devotion. But the idea of romantic love, as a motivating force for marriage, only goes as far back as the Middle Ages. Naturally, many scholars believe the concept was “invented” by the French. Its model was the knight who felt intense love for someone else’s wife, as in the case of Sir Lancelot and King Arthur’s wife, Queen Guinevere. Twelfth-century advice literature told men to woo the object of their desire by praising her eyes, hair, and lips. In the 13th century, Richard de Fournival, physician to the king of France, wrote “Advice on Love,” in which he suggested that a woman cast her love flirtatious glances—“anything but a frank and open entreaty.
CONT...
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post #114 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:37pm
CONT...

Quote:
Did love change marriage?
It sure did. Marilyn Yalom, a Stanford historian and author of A History of the Wife, credits the concept of romantic love with giving women greater leverage in what had been a largely pragmatic transaction. Wives no longer existed solely to serve men. The romantic prince, in fact, sought to serve the woman he loved. Still, the notion that the husband “owned” the wife continued to hold sway for centuries. When colonists first came to America—at a time when polygamy was still accepted in most parts of the world—the husband’s dominance was officially recognized under a legal doctrine called “coverture,” under which the new bride’s identity was absorbed into his. The bride gave up her name to symbolize the surrendering of her identity, and the husband suddenly became more important, as the official public representative of two people, not one. The rules were so strict that any American woman who married a foreigner immediately lost her citizenship.

How did this tradition change?
Women won the right to vote. When that happened, in 1920, the institution of marriage began a dramatic transformation. Suddenly, each union consisted of two full citizens, although tradition dictated that the husband still ruled the home. By the late 1960s, state laws forbidding interracial marriage had been thrown out, and the last states had dropped laws against the use of birth control. By the 1970s, the law finally recognized the concept of marital rape, which up to that point was inconceivable, as the husband “owned” his wife’s sexuality. “The idea that marriage is a private relationship for the fulfillment of two individuals is really very new,” said historian Stephanie Coontz, author of The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap. “Within the past 40 years, marriage has changed more than in the last 5,000.”

Men who married men
Gay marriage is rare in history—but not unknown. The Roman emperor Nero, who ruled from A.D. 54 to 68, twice married men in formal wedding ceremonies, and forced the Imperial Court to treat them as his wives. In second- and third-century Rome, homosexual weddings became common enough that it worried the social commentator Juvenal, says Marilyn Yalom in A History of the Wife. “Look—a man of family and fortune—being wed to a man!” Juvenal wrote. “Such things, before we’re very much older, will be done in public.” He mocked such unions, saying that male “brides” would never be able to “hold their husbands by having a baby.” The Romans outlawed formal homosexual unions in the year 342. But Yale history professor John Boswell says he’s found scattered evidence of homosexual unions after that time, including some that were recognized by Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches. In one 13th-century Greek Orthodox ceremony, the “Order for Solemnisation of Same Sex Union,” the celebrant asked God to grant the participants “grace to love one another and to abide unhated and not a cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God and all thy saints.”
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post #115 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
Baloney. You didn't choose to be a heterosexual. You are telling me when your reached puberty, you consciously decided, "Hmmm, I think I'll be a heterosexual." When you grew up, you were attracted to females (if you are a male) and started going out with them. Therefore you are a heterosexual.

In my entire life, I have never heard of a guy or women ever say anything remotely like, "I chose to be heterosexual when I grew up." I knew before I hit puberty I liked females. There was no deciding or choosing about it. I suspect it's the same way with homosexuals.

Jeez... is your thinking screwed-up.

Guapo
You are misreading what I am saying. It is a sub-conscious choice, but still a choice. Obviously, a person doesn't say to themselves, let's see, do I want to be a gay man or a heterosexual. But they do decide what they like or dislike. It is an act of the will and people make decisions based on what they think is best for them or what would be good for them. I decided to be a heterosexual man based on my attraction to women and my repulsion of homosexuality. Your thinking is totally foreign to me.
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post #116 of 187
11/6/08 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat View Post
Why do kids dress all in black?
Why do some cover up in tatoos?
Why do others stretch their ears?
Why do some choose to wait until after marriage to have sex?
Everyone does something thats "hard" and that others oppose....So do not act like gays are gay because what they do is opposed.

And I agree on your marriage view. Why do they want it? It is a religious thing. I never understood why anyone who is already having sex would want to get married. It means very little to someone unless they are religious.

But that just shows once again that Christians can not have anything good left alone. Everything must be corrupted in some form. And someone is always discriminated against.

Like the gays not being allowed in the boy scouts LOL. Why can't a Christian group have rules? If I could not join a gay club who the hell would listen to me if I cried about it? right, no one.
OMG!! Am I supposed to believe that homosexuality is just another form of rebellion? Being a heterosexual, I'd never dream of becoming a homosexual just to rebel against society. Hell.. If I wanted to rebel, I'd just go straight to the farm animals.

Jaz... I appreciate your post. It was very enlightening. I never looked into the origins of marriage. I just assumed that it was something developed by Christianity. Since it's not part of Christianity (sorry Bigcat), I'm all for giving homosexuals the rights to marry if they want to.
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post #117 of 187
11/6/08 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whinny View Post
You are misreading what I am saying. It is a sub-conscious choice, but still a choice. Obviously, a person doesn't say to themselves, let's see, do I want to be a gay man or a heterosexual. But they do decide what they like or dislike. It is an act of the will and people make decisions based on what they think is best for them or what would be good for them. I decided to be a heterosexual man based on my attraction to women and my repulsion of homosexuality. Your thinking is totally foreign to me.
It's not a decision. How do you explain all these people that "decide" not to be gay only later to come out as being gay? I'm talking about people that, because of societal pressures, marry, have kids and then realize later that being a heterosexual wasn't blowing their hair back?

So.. Is homosexuality ok if they stay closeted all their lives?

This is an oldy, but goody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Vs5570pKw

In retrospect, I wonder if Larry Craig was secretly attracted to Clinton? It sure sounds like it to me.
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post #118 of 187
11/6/08 at 9:15pm
I will tell you what World Wide Religion bans the act of homosexuality period. It can be either be Judaism, Christanity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhist, Dohism, Confusionism, Jainism, and the list goes on.. God sees a man and man or a woman and woman having sexual relations a sin...
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post #119 of 187
11/6/08 at 9:16pm
Can we ban religion worldwide?
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post #120 of 187
11/6/08 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpallas View Post
It's not a decision. How do you explain all these people that "decide" not to be gay only later to come out as being gay? I'm talking about people that, because of societal pressures, marry, have kids and then realize later that being a heterosexual wasn't blowing their hair back?

So.. Is homosexuality ok if they stay closeted all their lives?

This is an oldy, but goody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Vs5570pKw

In retrospect, I wonder if Larry Craig was secretly attracted to Clinton? It sure sounds like it to me.
Why can't you guys admit that when someone says they are gay it is a decison they made. No one twisted their arm and forced them to be gay. That is all I am saying. It doesn't matter when they made that decision for or against. It is still a decision. End of story. Geesh
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