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Question about selling short

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Just wondering when you sell short what is the time table on which you must buy to cover? Say I decide to short at 15.25 thinking the price is going down but then it it just seems to hang around that current price how many days do I have to see if it does drop before I must buy to cover?
post #2 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Just wondering when you sell short what is the time table on which you must buy to cover? Say I decide to short at 15.25 thinking the price is going down but then it it just seems to hang around that current price how many days do I have to see if it does drop before I must buy to cover?
until either the stock goes to $1million or you die

there is no limit on when you must cover, unlike with options when they expire. you can hold for years if you would like
post #3 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Just wondering when you sell short what is the time table on which you must buy to cover? Say I decide to short at 15.25 thinking the price is going down but then it it just seems to hang around that current price how many days do I have to see if it does drop before I must buy to cover?
Until your broker decides to issue a margin call which you can't come up with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_(finance)
post #4 of 17
ya theres a thing called margin, meaning you have to have a certain amount of equity so incase the stock decides to blast off, your broker won't be left with the bill.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
I would not let it get that far out of hand. Thanks for the info I was just wondering if there was a time limit but I can see why a broker would put a margin on it.
post #6 of 17
Naa, no time limit, but just keep in mind the longer you hold on to it, the more margin interest you rack up. Holding it for a few days, assuming a decent profit (or even a small profit) will make the margin interest charged pretty inconsequential but when you're holding for a long time it is something to keep in mind.

Plus if a stock kept moving sideways like that for a long time I'd start getting pretty worried
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Okay I've been practicing with going Short on the simulator and I'm still confused as to what really goes on.

I bought 1000 shares of DBRN at 15.35 for 15,369.99 and I wait to see if the stock is going down so I sell short at 14.65 so im about $700 dollars down.

I wait for about a week and the price has gone down to 10.67 so it should be a diffrence of $3,280.

Okay I buy to cover and it says account value $10,670 so where the hell did the $3280 go? Am I missing something?
post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Okay I've been practicing with going Short on the simulator and I'm still confused as to what really goes on.

I bought 1000 shares of DBRN at 15.35 for 15,369.99 and I wait to see if the stock is going down so I sell short at 14.65 so im about $700 dollars down.

I wait for about a week and the price has gone down to 10.67 so it should be a diffrence of $3,280.

Okay I buy to cover and it says account value $10,670 so where the hell did the $3280 go? Am I missing something?
Why did you buy the 1000 shares first? If you sold short 1000 shares when you already had a 1000 share long position, all you are doing is nullifying your long position and you are essentially neutral, not long or short.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post
Why did you buy the 1000 shares first? If you sold short 1000 shares when you already had a 1000 share long position, all you are doing is nullifying your long position and you are essentially neutral, not long or short.

Not sure what you are getting at. I bought the stock on the sim as practice. I just wanted to see what happened when you sell short and buy to cover. Should be a short play 15.35 down to 10.67

I thought you get the money difference and when you sell short you are borrowing shares from your broker and buy them back at a lower price? I could not see where the $3200 went to has anyone else run into this on investepidia?
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Not sure what you are getting at. I bought the stock on the sim as practice. I just wanted to see what happened when you sell short and buy to cover. Should be a short play 15.35 down to 10.67

I thought you get the money difference and when you sell short you are borrowing shares from your broker and buy them back at a lower price? I could not see where the $3200 went to has anyone else run into this on investepidia?
Let me get this straight so we are both on the same page. You shorted 1000 shares of a stock in which you already owned 1000 shares, correct?
post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post
Let me get this straight so we are both on the same page. You shorted 1000 shares of a stock in which you already owned 1000 shares, correct?
Yes that is correct. Damn this shorting stuff is confusing to me.

Don't you have to buy it before you can sell short.
post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Yes that is correct. Damn this shorting stuff is confusing to me.

Don't you have to buy it before you can sell short.
No. You are essentially just selling your shares then.


Shorting is simple. Instead of buying first and then selling later, you are selling first and then buying later. The object is still buy low and sell high, just reverse the order of operations.
post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post
No. You are essentially just selling your shares then.


Shorting is simple. Instead of buying first and then selling later, you are selling first and then buying later. The object is still buy low and sell high, just reverse the order of operations.
Okay I will try this on the simulator. I had no idea you could sell first with out buying is just seems so backwards. No wonder I have not been able to make money in this market. I have been scared of shorting. Glad I'm trying to figure it out.
post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Okay I will try this on the simulator. I had no idea you could sell first with out buying is just seems so backwards. No wonder I have not been able to make money in this market. I have been scared of shorting. Glad I'm trying to figure it out.
Good thing it's a simulation! Good luck trading!
post #15 of 17
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooty888 View Post
Okay I've been practicing with going Short on the simulator and I'm still confused as to what really goes on.

I bought 1000 shares of DBRN at 15.35 for 15,369.99 and I wait to see if the stock is going down so I sell short at 14.65 so im about $700 dollars down.

I wait for about a week and the price has gone down to 10.67 so it should be a diffrence of $3,280.

Okay I buy to cover and it says account value $10,670 so where the hell did the $3280 go? Am I missing something?
What you have done is called a short against the box. You just did it incorrectly. This practice is not done much at the retail level so lets clear it up a tad.

To make this work on the retail level, you either need two accounts or a seperated contract account. Two accounts are less expensive.


You have two accounts. One for long term holds. One for derivatives. No margin required for a long account.

Your margin account is strictly for derivatives and shorts.

Buy 1000 long in your "cash" account.

If you believe that the stock is showing signs of weakness in the short term, but still feel confident in its long term prospects, you can short from your margin side. No need to locate, you already own the cover shares. Stock tanks 35% in a week from a bad earnings report. You buy to cover from the margin account and pocket the difference.

If the short goes against you to the degree that a margin call is made, you cover from your long account and kick yourself in the azz for a bad play.

There are other ways to cover a bad play, but you should get the idea.

This is not a good technique for emotional, new or poorly financed traders.
Splitting the difference between being a trader and an investor is difficult at best, a disaster in the making at worst. The two disciplines require totally seperate approaches that many find hard to master.



Good Luck
post #17 of 17
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