What Will You Say When You Stand Before God Someday? - Page 14

Well, you could peruse this to start:

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. 6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Then there is:

Luke 22

66At daybreak the council of the elders of the people, both the chief priests and teachers of the law, met together, and Jesus was led before them. 67"If you are the Christ,[d]" they said, "tell us." Jesus answered, "If I tell you, you will not believe me, 68and if I asked you, you would not answer. 69But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the mighty God." 70They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

He clearly states that He is the Son of God in the book of Luke. In the book of John, Jesus if referred to as "the Word" and it states that "the Word was God".

You decide.

First, the question of whether or not Jesus claimed to be divine is interesting to me, but proves nothing either way.

Secondly, were any of the Gospels written during Jesus' lifetime? I think not. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel#Dating) So basically, the evidence rests on secondhand accounts of what Jesus said, written many decades after his death by a small group of followers who were trying to grow their numbers. The Buddha never claimed to be a god either, but he's worshiped as one in many parts of the world.

The Gospels are not the most consistent source, and contradict with each other. I find it very interesting that you quote the two Gospels that are believed to be the last written. Why didn't the earlier gospels include Jesus' claim that he was the Son of God? That seems like it should have been front and center, and not written as an addendum!

On the other subject of whether Jesus was killed in fact for blasphemy, let us return again to the Gospels:

John 19:12: "every one who makes himself a king sets himself against Caesar."

Luke 23:2, "And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.";

Acts 17:7, "Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus."

Lies are wrong.. LOL And this is coming from you.. who does not believe in God?

Are you the al-mighty one to tell us whats right and wrong?

And you want to preach about non-sense. If there is no God then there is no right and wrong. Your life (and everyone else's) means nothing, absolute zero. You are just another animal. When you die you will remember nothing, feel nothing, and be nothing. So why care about anyone or anything?

Apparently this is where the world is headed. No one cares. Everyone says they care but it's only to get something now or in the future.

If your an animal why should I treat you different than I would a deer, chicken or a roach? Because I'm evolved? LOL... Because I want to enjoy my life that means literally ZERO and that I will not remember anyway?

How can there be a right and wrong with no God?

OK. And America was not founded on Christian beliefs or by Christians either.

so what religion are rhesus monkeys?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/sc...Topics/Animals

Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior

By NICHOLAS WADE
Published: March 20, 2007

Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days.

Biologists argue that these and other social behaviors are the precursors of human morality. They further believe that if morality grew out of behavioral rules shaped by evolution, it is for biologists, not philosophers or theologians, to say what these rules are.

Moral philosophers do not take very seriously the biologists’ bid to annex their subject, but they find much of interest in what the biologists say and have started an academic conversation with them.

The original call to battle was sounded by the biologist Edward O. Wilson more than 30 years ago, when he suggested in his 1975 book “Sociobiology” that “the time has come for ethics to be removed temporarily from the hands of the philosophers and biologicized.” He may have jumped the gun about the time having come, but in the intervening decades biologists have made considerable progress.

Last year Marc Hauser, an evolutionary biologist at Harvard, proposed in his book “Moral Minds” that the brain has a genetically shaped mechanism for acquiring moral rules, a universal moral grammar similar to the neural machinery for learning language. In another recent book, “Primates and Philosophers,” the primatologist Frans de Waal defends against philosopher critics his view that the roots of morality can be seen in the social behavior of monkeys and apes.

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Bigcat,

In blue below, that's not true. Societies establish right and wrong. Many people who don't believe in God have moral standards. People can and do establish such standards for themselves without the help of religion.

In red below, that's not true either. I can have as happy a life as possible. I can raise my children to know right from wrong, and help them be happy and successful, to have as good a life as possible. I can help others less fortunate than myself. Everyone of us can have a positive effect on the world, regardless whether we believe in God or not.

In green below, I think that's exactly what we are, all of us, just animals. When we die, that's it. We are gone. It's over.

Lastly, because you believe in God and another person doesn't, does not mean he's an animal and you aren't, so you can treat him anyway you want, though organized religions have done exactly that in the past.

It does not disturb me to believe that when we die, there is nothing else. That's the way life is, I think.

We see others die and their bodies put into the ground. That's unnerving to say the least, to know that our time's coming. Religion is humanity's best effort to avoid that finality. It's faith and hope.

There is nothing wrong at all with faith and hope in a God if that's what you believe. I just happen to think there are no gods, in any of the religions.

Guapo

Scotchfaster,

Good article below. As the article says below, "...morality grew out of behavioral rules shaped by evolution....", I believe that. In other words, it's in the genes. Taking care of others of your species is a positive characteristic, it helps the entire species survive.

You even see it with insects. It's not that insects have any empathy for other members of their species; it's built-in, for survival.

Guapo

Excellent post, Guapo. I couldn't agree with you more.

From Robert Anton Wilson's Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy, pg. 515

Orangustang,

Thanks. Per your quote below, so I came from monkeys. What's the big deal about that? I don't feel any less because of it. I'm not embarrassed or uneasy about it. I really don't understand the reluctance of folks to admit humans descended from the apes. So what, you know? That's just the way it happened.

Guapo

I agree. It's like having a retarded cousin. It doesn't make me any less of a genius. You and I are exceptions, however. I think most people, at least in this country, would have a problem accepting that they are just another species of primate.

You would not be standing before God. You would be kneeling. You would most likely be saying nothing. Even if you do not think God exists pretend for a minute that he does and then tell me you would ask questions like you posted above and actually question him like that.

No, Im pretty sure I wouldnt be kneeling before anything, one, and two, yes I would have asked him those questions. Whether he exists or not, I would still ask those questions because people like you cant clearly answer the questions, so the "One" better be able to answer my questions. Dont try to tell me how I feel about the concept of god. I honestly think no one will ever stand before god " someday". And I guess you are the only one who would be cowering in front of god, not saying anything, not me. I already answered the question, with MY answer, not yours so mind your own business.

Yeah, it's almost like people are embarrassed to admit humans developed from apes. The Christian religion teaches humans didn't but the evidence is overwhelming we did. Many Christians must wrestle with that a lot, despite their protestations to the contrary. Just my guess though.

Your right Guapo it's based on faith. But where does faith come from?
Jesus existed. Evidence of the Bible and stories, cities, Etc.

I know God exists partly because he answers my prayers. The funny thing is that when any Christian starts to explain answered prayers non-believers make up excuses. You pray for "xyz" for years then when you get it you think God gave it to you but you would have got it anyway. Or you only see the positive side and ignore the negative. And when the answered prayers get to where you can not say these things you push it over into the "your crazy" category.

In other words it does not matter what God has done for me you will not listen.

I guess my only point is that in order to believe you have to trust God, pray to him, and then count your blessings and answered prayers.

If you want I will share my answered prayers for you.

Proof of jesus' existence is not proof of the existence of a god.

The prayer arguement that all the non believers is a valid arguement whether you like it or not. If you pray for something that is likely to happen anyways, why be suprised when it actually happens? How many times do your prayers NOT get answered? How many times do you get the complete opposite of what you wanted? You wont be able to find a correlation in the days that you prayed, and the times your prayers were answered. Also, you cant account for the things that happened that you didnt pray for, or the things that went completely wrong.

I think you missed the point. If you die and find yourself before God you will not be in control what-so-ever.

I know you do not think God exists. But IF he does and you find yourself before God do you really think you can say what ever you want?

Bigcat,

I thought I was through in this thread. I guess not.

Well, I don't think you're crazy if you believe God answers your prayers.

I will repeat the common theme running through my posts in this thread, and that is, if you want to believe in Christianity or any other religion, that's fine with me. I have no problems with that at all.

What I object to are evangelistic efforts by religions and people in them to convince others to believe as they do. What I protest even more are organized religions lobbying to enact new laws or modify current ones to force everybody to adhere to their beliefs.

I'm not trying to be rude but I'll pass on the offer of your answered prayers. I didn't join this thread to debate the existence of God (which turned out to be unavoidable) but to express my distaste for some activities religions engage in.

Guapo

not according to the bible, which says god is nice and forgiving after he killed everyone in the global flood of anger. That doesnt make any sense. If god existed, and he already knew what I thought, then why would I be "before him" at all? Wouldnt I be instantly cast into hell?

Bigcat, answer me this, And maybe ill make this a new discussion topic. What if you were just about to die, and you found out No Gods exist, how would you feel?

I understand what your saying. Trust me I've thought about it deeply. Not all Christians simply believe in God as you think they do just because they are scared of hell.

I'm a very logical person. Amo will have fun with that statement but it's true.

How many 1 out of 100,000 odd things would have to happen for you to believe?

My personal experiences mean nothing to you because you do not know me. If you told me a story I would think you were exagerating also.

My point here is that real Christians have a testamony that you can not take away by telling them to quit being non-logical or scared of hell or everything else listed on this thread.

You can not take away my answered prayers. And yes it's possible that they all could of happened without God. About the same odds as life happening on earth without God but still possible.

You also need to keep in mind that a very(IMO) large percent of "Chistians" are not true Christians. Many many people try to act like one because they are scared of hell or because it makes their family happy. Many do it to fit in to a group. I think only about 10-20% of Americans are actually Christian.

But yet again and again non-believers will hold it against true Christians when the others start cults, molest kids, steal money, and everything else that is not Christian.

I agree Guapo. I have a distaste for much of what your referring to also. I disagree with using hell as a scare tactic also.