What Will You Say When You Stand Before God Someday? - Page 6

lol
i know all the crap they try to pull

Is there a way that you would accept that its not a fantasy? This is the biggest problem, coming from a 20 year atheist and a 7 year christian. It all seems like a bunch of hocus pocus non-sense that is a fairtale way of dealing with the scum that is our lives with hopes that after this crap we go through is over there will be a light at the end of the tunnel. Truth is, there is no worldly proof except artifacts and the like that will prove to anyone that God is what started it all. I've seen through eyes that don't look towards heaven, and the world seemed to make sense. 1+1=2. At rock bottom as I am a man that takes basically nothing on faith due to the failures in faith I have been through in my life, I found Jesus. Sitting on a lawn chair drinking a mai tai waving. And as I used to say before I believed "All religion is, is a crutch for the weak". To an extent this is a truth. However, God being created for a reason to go, not true. He is a reason to go on but we did not create him. The truth is, the only proof you get is after you take that step. Its not a fabication or something your mind makes up to validate what you believe. I can prove it to myself but to others its such a fine line that if they do not exercise faith it will seem like random events that 'could' happen. I was broken and had bills and family medical issues, I gave to the Lord what was his and I find a check in my mailbox for 100% the exact amount I need to pay all my bills that month and help my family. I take a different route home after going the same way for 2 years and I find a mother of 3 broken down at 11pm with her babies. I know nothing about cars, yet, I'm able to get her van started and she got home. God gives us a choice. We can pick it and we can not pick it. He is greedy for love from us, but he won't force us - you pick. He wants us all, but not all want him.

[QUOTE=Guapo;1579011]
Hi Guapo!

This is a very funny issue, but I'd like to chime in on this. Religion changes and then spawns hellfire and brimestone. Many people no matter who they claim is thier God, have VERY limited ability to think for themselves on the matter and thus they do not have the relationship that God or thier God(s) want from them.
Me specfically, I am a Christian. Now from what you probably know about religion that sets an image of who and how I am. Let me tell ya, I am no saint. The difference between me now and me for 20 years of being an atheist is very simple. Back then I was a good person but I had no understanding of right or wrong. Now I see with a different set of eyes. I can feel when I am doing something right or wrong. 100% does that mean I am always doing right... .uh... no. But I understand the world now. I give thanks for the One that made me, my life, the world... I understand that I am not the judge, I am just a dude. Hanging out smoking cigarettes drinking whiskey and making it day by day.

The biggest thing that has adversly affected Jesus is religion. Faith is not religion. Religion doesn't mean you have faith. The only thing you need is Faith. I am not telling you "convert, convert, hell fire, hell fire." No. Sorry that is false and also who the hell am I to tell you, you are going to hell. Dude I drink, smoking, play poker semi-professionally, fight in wars, and a list of bad stuff. At the end of the day, I apologize. That's it. I 100% full-heartedly apologize and I am sorry for the bad stuff I did that day. God says "It's cool brosif! I know you're sorry. Now bugger off I'm watchin' wrastlin'!"

Its really that easy. God knows you better than you know you. He's not going to expect a convert to be a saint. He didn't make us on earth to be saints. Anyone that tries to live to the standard of no sins/mistakes - fails. There has been only one, Jesus... or for the spanish folks... Jesus... he was the perfect person and he had to die.

Its hard to see how God is, but the thing is, gotta remember how he is refered to. The father. Guapo I don't know if you have kids or had a father but here is how it works. When you have kids, you want them to behave. You want them to listen to you. You want them to grow up and be great adults! That is all God wants from us. If your kid messes up in school, do you take him out back and burn him with cigarettes? No. If he says he doesn't love you, do you kick him in the head? No. However, if he sassy's you, you might break out that belt to teach him not to do that. But that is a temporary lesson. God is our Dad. He's cool, he's throws BBQ's, drinks expensive beer and drives a truck. We try our best to make him happy and proud. Can't be perfect though. And he knows that. But if your kid runs from you, leaves home, and never returns, how can you protect them from the mess that is out there? Drugs, child molesters, rapists, you can not protect a kid that is not there. Now, the kid gets hooked on drugs and his life leads to somewhere else than what it should be. There is no life, heaven or earth that doesn't come without consequences. Everything produces a reaction. Stray away from God and he can't protect you from the evil that is out there, and when indulging in evil, its does lead to a road not with God. But here is the best thing ever - just a little dangerous. No matter the offense, big or small, even a death bed conversion is still accepted. No matter how bad you think something you've done is - God doesn't care he writes it off the same that he writes off my drinking and pinching girls bottoms. He's cool like that. Only worry is, never know when death will getcha!

Free will is a bitch dude. I can tell you now there is one true faith, one true God. It started way the mess long time ago. Now that being said, Religion distorts the true. Some are on the right lines don't get me wrong, but for the most part its a person that heard the same message and said - Hmm.... I like this but not that. I'm going to tell people what I like. They listen, it changes. Then one person there says - I think God is a tree, so I believe that now. It further progresses into the lie. There is reasons why it is all so confusing. If it were easy we'd all be hanging out playing Halo 3 in heaven. God doesn't want it to be easy - he is a prideful man, he wants to turn us loose and see who comes back. Plus if everything was halo 3 and clouds we'd get board and start breaking crap in heaven. And funny enough - when there was a message before Jesus, why send Jesus? It levels the playing field. Why would Jews who have witnessed eyeball level mircales when someone across the world didn't see them. How are they to believe in God? God sends a questionable messenger and tells the Jews - this is me, and only through him will you see me. So now the only race of people that had 100% definitive proof that there was 1 God and 1 God only now are in the same boat as the rest of the world. This guy claims to be our God on earth... Hmmm.... are far as noodle scratchers go, thats a honeydoodle. It takes away from thier blind unquestioned faith and gives them something to have to do in order to get back to him.
Now - understand, I'd love the whole world to convert. But I am not telling anyone to convert. I am not in that position. I can tell you God gives me money and loots that I do not deserve. He gives me jobs that I don't deserve. He provides me shelter that I do not deserve. He gives me life a meaning like no wife every could. He validates me and makes my day no matter how terrible or who is shooting at me, he makes it cool. Plus he provides me people to sneak me a drinky drink everyonce in a while.

Its not about changing for him. If you ever make it to having a relationship with him - you get to see the world with a true set of eyes. That makes you want to change and be the best he created you to be. Someone somewhere said you have to be a certain way to be a Christian... not true. You become something different when you become a Christian.

Cheers

Hi MrPantaloons,

How ya doing? I hope everything is going well with you. Thanks for your post.

Well, I can't prove to you God doesn't exist just as you can't prove to me he does. We all reach our own conclusions about the existence of God from our personal experiences, thoughts, ideas and sometimes input from others, I suppose.

We can discuss it all day but the bottom line is that belief in God comes down to faith. If you have it and I don't, we can yak-yak at each other till the cows come home and never reach any kind of agreement.

Guapo

Three possibilities:

1) I hit "rock bottom". Having lost everything, and being in the grips of addictions that rule and ruin my life, I am seriously considering suicide when Jesus appears to me and offers me his hand. I join a Church, who encourage my recovery, and I find that the more I place my trust in Jesus, the more my life improves.

This seems to be a popular way that people find God, and it often seems to work for them. Can I argue with results?

Hell yeah! First, what if I DON'T develop a serious drinking problem and bottom out? Do I never get to find God and burn forever as a result? That seems just a bit unfair. Also, we all know that kids create "imaginary friends" to fill some need they have, and I don't think adults are much different. As an experiment, take a kid with an "imaginary friend" and surround him/her with a group of people who all claim to have spoken to this same "imaginary friend". Belief is not proof.

2) The ridiculousness of it convinces me. Let me explain. First, if Christians are right, the most IMPORTANT THING one can do in one's mortal life is to find God. Now, let's say that you could find God through logic. This means that God would reward the most logical, while punishing those who just aren't bright enough to convince themselves that God exists.

This doesn't seem possible, so I conclude that you can't find God through logic. In fact, logic seems like the biggest stumbling block to finding God, because an omnipotent, omniscient, all-benevolent God makes no sense.

Let's imagine instead that what this God really wants from us is faith in His existence. If I'm God, and I'm trying to separate the faithful from the faithless, do I make my existence known? No, I make my existence seem as improbable as possible. The more illogical is God's existence, the more faith His believers will need to have.

If we hypothesize this kind of God, then I'd say there are a lot of arguments in favor of His existence - because it's easier to prove He doesn't exist than He does.

3) I go the route of a friend of mine and decide to believe in God out of self-interest. She decided she'd be happier believing than not, and amazingly enough has seemed to pull it off. I just don't think this would work for me, but it's intriguing and seems relatively harmless. I strongly doubt I'd end up a Christian, though.

i meant make us that way. Just make us worship him all the time.

it seems dumb to "make" a person and tell him with a "book" to worship one's self all the time, and never showing my true self. WHY!?!?! so we can go to "heaven"???

i rather live as a "hell" fiend, not worshiping a god but following moral values.

Scotchfaster,

In red below, that's exactly what God wants. He wants people to believe in him. The Christian religion teaches you can't get into heaven unless you believe in him. Oh, I forgot, he wants us to worship him also.

Maybe some of the Christians here can explain the differences in the God of the Old and New Testaments. In the Old Testament, God is a vengeful God full of wrath. In the New Testament, he's a kindly, loving, benevolent God.

Note too in the New Testament it's all about Jesus. Well, not all but much of it is about Jesus and the need to go through him to reach God.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Do the two quotes above in italics sound familiar, perhaps like some modern-day religious demagogues who've set themselves up as the true path to God? "Oh, don't forget to drop-off some cash as you pass-by on the way to heaven. Give till it hurts my brother."

Lastly,

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Jesus said, "Most assuredly"????? I find it hilarious a translator of the Bible would use those words. Whatever happened to "Verily I say unto you"? I've always like that phrase. It has a nice ring to it.

Guapo

Scotchfaster,

I took the liberty to delete part of your post in the interest of brevity. Hope you don't mind.

Re the part in red below, if you find the wrong god, you still go to hell. The Christian religion teaches you have to find the Christian God. You just can't go out and willy-nilly find another one on your own.

Guapo

Sucks pretty bad for all those people born in countries where Christianity is not the primary religion forced upon children by their parents. Guess none of them get to go to heaven.

These people who find god, what if, instead of being exposed to christianity, they were exposed to buddhism.

Then they would find Buddha, and although it might solve their problems, they'll still burn in hell right?

Don't forget about the Native Americans....What would they have done if it wasn't for us good Christ spreading white men....why...they'd still all be going to hell if we wouldn't have saved them.

^ LMAO!!!!!!!!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!

those same "christian europeans"
raped, pillaged, stole, murdered relatively peaceful indians...(ironic it was the Indians called savages, etc)

its all good ..i am sure they asked for forgiveness the next day and bowed down to their almighty god, so they DESERVE to go to heaven instead of those savage indians.
I'll go out on a limb and say that missionman will claim they were not true christians such as himself, of course.

Well, that's the popular conception. But as I pointed out earlier, Jesus threatened those who were "angry with his brother without a cause" with "hell-fire." He also said "think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill," which I understand to refer to the Old Testament.

So much for the loving God of the New Testament.

Folks, I think I am truly unconvertable. If the Christian conception of God is the correct one and I end up burning for all eternity, so be it. At least I'll have the eternal satisfaction of knowing I didn't kowtow to a God who likes to torture his creations. And all my friends will be there!

But honestly, I think all organized religions are simply made up stories, and I'm losing interest in discussing "what if" this particular story turns out to be true. It gives it more credence than it deserves, IMO. What if the ancient Norse were right and only the valiant warriors get to go to Valhalla? What if the Great Pumpkin is real?

What if we can't know the answers to all of our questions and have to learn to accept it?

Incidentally, I think this news item shows one of the many downsides of accepting Pascal's Wager. Don't click if you're squeamish.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...-mostviewedbox

no, its ok, it was god's plan. There is a reason for everything... right?

hmmm i fell compelled to answer:

If it is all true and I am standing before him I would look him in the eye and tell him that being shallow does not constitute being god. The power that he held could have changed the world into a better place. Instead he caused termoil and fear by creating rules to live by. In turn people became to involved in being accepted as a specific religion and that theirs must be correct. Instead of looking at thy brother and accepting them in their heart beside their differences. I then would tell him that if hell is my punishment for doubting atleast the devil has kept his goals in sight. If god was a trader he would be broke like most of us cause he would never follow his own rules. Then of course I would ask if he needs a PR man. Cause obviously i would need a job now that i was dead.

LOL



good thread none the less