Pro-life or Pro-Choice.. let's argue! - Page 17

No doubt, it can be very difficult determing who is innocent and who is not.

That doesn't always need to be the case, however. For example, babies in the womb are still innocent, wouldn't you agree?

And this gets to the crux of the issue, but again Amohedas, you might have missed it in all the spam. Fireopal was trying to say that those of us who support war, or "murder" of any kind are inconsistent in our beliefs if we are also pro-life.

And try as I might, I cannot seem to explain to her that there is a difference between the taking of innocent life and the taking of non-innocent life.

ok so how about this for you >> i will send you to all of the single women and/or couples that cannot afford to raise children and/or do not have the resourses to support a handicapped child. I want to see you put your money where your mouth is and and either adopt every single child or locate folks that will adopt all of these children but most especially all of the minority children being born everyday... and i too wish you the best of luck!

but hey - we have strayed from the issue here, which was you trying to sit so high up on that christian horse of morality when it comes to abortion being murder but not acknowledging the other areas of murder that you do support, so get a grip...

Sure there is a difference. Also some people don't view a fetus as a living human so to them it wouldn't be murder. Very complicated stuff. IMO, the abortion debate is relatively pointless. Those against abortion lobby to make it illegal, but abortions will still occur even if there is a law against it. So instead they need to convince everyone that abortion is wrong and support adoption etc.

The sad thing is most "pro-lifers" don't have any solutions for what to do with these babies after they are born.

I think what fireopal is getting at is that during War innocents die. So if you support a war you are essentially saying that the deaths of those innocents outways what is gained from the war. You aren't necessarily supporting the murder of those innocents, but you are accepting it as a necessary aspect of war.

Just as some people do not view Jews as a living human so to them it wouldn't be murder.

I do not subscribe to the belief that murder is in the eye of the beholder. Otherwise, how could I ever hold someone responsible for the act?

understand the difference and as far as i am concerned all of those being sent or signing up to go to war are the innocents b/c they clearly don't get the powers that be who have created this situation and how these powers manipulate all into thinking/believing things that simply are not true and how they have trained most to believe that what they are doing is alignment with the words written in that bible when in fact the actions go against the words as are outlined in the new testament imo...

Yup, that's what the Nazis did, dehumanize the Jews. It's a common technique used be all armies really, dehumanize your enemy and it makes killing them easier.


Baggi, you say murder is NOT in the eye of the beholder so let's experiment:

During WWII if a U.S. soldier killed a German soldier was that murder?
During WWII if a German soldier killed a U.S. soldier was that murder?

If a U.S. soldier knowingly killed an innocent civilian was that murder?
If a German soldier knowingly killed an innocent civilian was that murder?

-As a person from the U.S. how would you answer this?
-As a person from Germany how would you answer this?

If a woman has a high probablity of dieing if she were to give birth to the fetus currently growing inside of her and she decides to have an abortion is that murder?

-As the woman how would you answer this?
-As the fetus how would you answer this?

yes - this is what i am saying in part.. another aspect would be any christian that tries to play holier than thou while ignoring the blood that is on their own hands when it comes to murder as is outlined in the bible.. take issue with anyone that wants to try and use the bible as a reference to prove how they are right and others are wrong - when in fact they too are wrong..

Just as math is not in the eye of the beholder, but be careful, I don't have all the answers to math!

No.
No.
Yes.
Yes.

I suppose as I just answered?

I'm not a person from Germany but I fail to see how I might answer any differently than I already did.

Yes.

My wife is sitting behind me and answered this for me. So, I suppose I did answer as a woman.

Probably the same way that Terri Schiavo answered it, "No, please God someone feed me! I'm starving! Help!"

baggi - did you not say that murder was a pre-meditated act so how could war be any different b/c it is a plan to kill which makes it a pre-meditated act??

premeditated definition

--- characterized by deliberate purpose and some degree of planning

believe the bible's stance is only humans are made in the image of god, and this is why we are not to kill people like we might decide to kill/slaughter an animal.... wars are about human killing/slaughter, and this happens when a society disregards god’s word about the inherent value of humanity - about being human -- yes/no??

Murder isn't always pre-meditated killing. I could come home, see my wife with another man, go into a blind rage, and murder her and the man she is with. Also, pre-meditating killing is not always murder.

Hope that clears up my position for you.

true that a blind rage wouldn't qualify as a premeditated act.. and maybe you were not the one that tried to use the bible as a way to say that it was ok to kill another human but it wasn't ok to murder b/c murder was a premeditated act... no matter b/c according to what i got from the bible, it is not ok to do either when it comes to another living, walking and breathing human that the bible says is made in god's image, and to do so reflects a very twisted and sick society imo...

not to mention > "an eye for an eye only leaves the whole world blind"

Don't worry Terri didn't feel a thing. She had been a veggy for 15 years. Nothing was going to change that, not even all the Republicans in the House and Senate praying for her.

I'm anti-abortion in all situations except where its an ectopic pregnancy.

I believe the soul of a human is created at conception.

I think women should be allowed to do what they want with *their* bodies, including killing themselves with the assistance of a doctor. (Not when carrying a child, though.) But to kill their own child, inside their own womb, or outside, is, in my opinion, murder.

Now we have come to euthanasia...personally,i'd like someone to do for me what i'd do for my dog....

Please, don't question my caring. How many people did you feed last Thanksgiving/Christmas? How many Katrina victims did you take in? How many things have you sent to the troops fighting a war? How many children in poor countries do you give money to and write to every month? How many people have you saved and brought to Christ in your life?

I know my answers.

And again, you have failed to answer the question.

Please, PM me your address.

You are a very sad person.

hey you started this so if you can't handle the heat then best not be playing with fire.. and let's try and stay on topic here, which was murder not who does what b/c you not be the only one on this planet that does the charity work.. and as far as your comment about bringing christ into the lives of others >> >>> news flash - gotta know what he said and what his words mean b/f it be possible to do that, and as this thread reflects you clearly know and demonstrate very little that is even remotely close to resembling any part of the plan that he outlined for how we were to live and be with one another.... but hey - no doubt you probably have turned some very lost sheep on to your version of scripture, and there will be some more horns out here a blowing words they don't walk... so you may score some points for this one b/c better to bring some closer to the truth than not at all

I'd get my dog high as a Georgia Pie long before killing it. Unless it has some kind of terrible disease.

Most people kill their dog for a little hip pain, or something pathetic like that. Some anti-inflammatories and doggie opiates and bowser is ready to run.

When our german shepard could no longer walk on her hind legs, we put her to sleep. I would much rather have her be out of her misery, than pumped up on drugs and opiates. Would never do that to a dog or a person, just because I cant handle saying goodbye.