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GMO's

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

over 1 trillion meals by GMO products and guess how many people gotten sick?   ZERO.

 

i am biased but willing to listen to you organic guys out there.

 

Organic may taste better and a bit healthier but cant feed the world unfortunately.  I have a feeling that GM modified sweet corn will actually be sweeter too as they are able to locate and duplicate that gene.  I would love to take a blindfold test to see which one i like better. 

 

 

Can i hear some reasons why GM products are so bad and have facts behind it?   I've seen  nothing scientifically proven and theres been hundreds if not thousands of studies on these foods that we eat every day. 

 

No crazy posts about agent orange or all the crap in the past..I actually want someone to convince me NOT to eat GM food anymore.  facts.

post #2 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankndapot View Post

over 1 trillion meals by GMO products and guess how many people gotten sick?   ZERO.

 

i am biased but willing to listen to you organic guys out there.

 

Organic may taste better and a bit healthier but cant feed the world unfortunately.  I have a feeling that GM modified sweet corn will actually be sweeter too as they are able to locate and duplicate that gene.  I would love to take a blindfold test to see which one i like better. 

 

 

Can i hear some reasons why GM products are so bad and have facts behind it?   I've seen  nothing scientifically proven and theres been hundreds if not thousands of studies on these foods that we eat every day. 

 

No crazy posts about agent orange or all the crap in the past..I actually want someone to convince me NOT to eat GM food anymore.  facts.

 

People DO get sick ... it's just not widely publicized until Monsanto is FORCED to disclose their research through FOIA lawsuits or a large population in a foreign country are affected by GM crops!

 

The biotech industry is fond of saying that they offer genetically modified (GM) crops that resist pests, conjuring up the image of insects staying away from GM crop fields.

But "resisting pests" is just a euphemism, for "contains its own built-in pesticide." When bugs take a bite of the GM plant, the toxin splits open their stomach and kills them!

The idea that we consume that same toxic pesticide in every bite is hardly appetizing!

 

Genetic engineers simply remove the gene that produces the Bt in bacteria and then insert it into the DNA of corn and cotton plants so that the plant does the work, not the farmer.

They say that Bt-toxin is quickly destroyed in our stomach ... but RESEARCH tells a different story!

 

"People with compromised immune systems or pre-existing allergies may be particularly susceptible to the effects of Bt."

"Repeated exposure via inhalation can result in sensitization and allergic response in hypersensitive individuals."

 

So much for the contention that Bt does not interact with humans!

First of all, GM plants produce about 3,000-5,000 times the amount of toxin as the sprays. A Bt producing GM plant continuously produces the toxin in every cell where it does not dissipate by weather and cannot be washed off.The bacterial spray form, on the other hand, is broken down within a few days to two weeks by sunlight, high temperatures, or substances on the leaves of plants, and can be "washed from leaves into the soil by rainfall," or rinsed by consumers.

 

The natural toxin produced in bacteria is inactive until it gets inside the alkaline digestive tract of an insect.

Once inside, a "safety catch" is removed and the Bt becomes toxic.

 

But scientists change the sequence of the Bt gene before inserting it into GM plants. The Bt toxin it produces usually comes without the safety catch. The plant-produced Bt toxin is always active and more likely to trigger an immune response than the natural variety. The World Health Organization (WHO) and UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) suggest examining a protein for 1) similarity of its amino acid sequence to known allergens, 2) digestive stability, and 3) heat stability. These properties are not predictive of allergenicity. But according to experts, their presence should be sufficient to reject the GM crop or at least require more testing.

 

The Bt-toxin produced in GM corn fails all three criteria.

 

For example, the specific Bt-toxin found in Monsanto‘s Yield Guard and Syngenta‘s Bt 11 corn varieties is called Cry1AB. In 1998, an FDA researcher discovered that Cry1Ab shared a sequence of 9-12 amino acids with vitellogenin, an egg yolk allergen. The study concluded that "the similarity... might be sufficient to warrant additional evaluation." No additional evaluation took place.

 

Expert advisers to the EPA called for "surveillance and clinical assessment of exposed individuals" to "confirm the allergenicity of Bt products." Again, no such monitoring has taken place.

 

Bt-toxin is produced in GM corn and can be eaten intact. It is also in pollen, which can be breathed in.

In 2003, during the time when an adjacent Bt cornfield was pollinating, virtually an entire Filipino village of about 100 people were stricken by a disease. The symptoms included headaches, dizziness, extreme stomach pain, vomiting, chest pains, fever and allergies, as well as respiratory, intestinal, and skin reactions.

The symptoms appeared first in those living closest to the field, and then progressed to others by proximity. Blood samples from 39 individuals showed antibodies in response to Bt-toxin. This supports, but does not prove a link to the symptoms. However, when the same corn was planted in four other villages the following year the symptoms returned in all four areas - only during the time of pollination.

 

They had even warned that genes from inhaled pollen might transfer into the DNA of bacteria in the respiratory system.

Although no studies were done to verify this risk, years later UK scientists confirmed that after consuming GM soybeans, the foreign inserted genes can transfer into the DNA of gut bacteria.

 

If this also happens with Bt genes, then years after we decide to stop eating GM corn chips, our own gut bacteria may continue to produce Bt-toxin within our intestines.

 

A Monsanto rat study on Bt corn (Mon 863) that was made public due to a lawsuit, showed a significant increase in three types of blood cells related to the immune system: basophils, lymphocytes, and total white cell counts. (Leukemia)

 

Somehow, the protein changes from harmless to potentially deadly, just by being created in different plant species. What is considered "harmless" in beans could be poisonous in peas. Scientists believe that subtle, unpredicted changes in the pattern of sugar molecules that are attached to the protein causes the problem. These types of subtle changes are not routinely analyzed in GM crops on the market.

 

Allergic reactions are a defensive, often harmful immune system response to an external irritant. The body interprets something as foreign, different, and offensive, and reacts accordingly.

 

All GM foods, by definition, have something "foreign and different"...

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

nice copy and paste.   Sources?  Who has gotten sick?  Sources?  If people got sick it would be all over the news and im sure FDA is all over their results and test the hell out of everything to make sure its safe. 

 

I think it would be nice to have another 10-20 years of results to see how this effects the human body and the environment. 

 

But right now its perfectly healthy imo.  How else are we going to feed the world anyway, cut down all the forests in the world to make cute organic farms?

post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankndapot View Post

nice copy and paste.   Sources?  Who has gotten sick?  Sources?  If people got sick it would be all over the news and im sure FDA is all over their results and test the hell out of everything to make sure its safe. 

 

I think it would be nice to have another 10-20 years of results to see how this effects the human body and the environment. 

 

But right now its perfectly healthy imo.  How else are we going to feed the world anyway, cut down all the forests in the world to make cute organic farms?

 

Sources?
Same as yours ... the Internet!

 

Who has gotten sick?  Sources?
"Virtually an entire Filipino village of about 100 people were stricken by a disease". Read the story!

It's in the second paragraph under the heading "Immune, toxic, and reproductive problems"

http://www.againstthegrainnutrition.com/newsandnotes/2009/04/14/genetically-engineered-corn-may-cause-allergies-infertility-and-disease/

 

If people got sick it would be all over the news and im sure FDA is all over their results and test the hell out of everything to make sure its safe.

Wrong! The MSM are whores to the corporations that pay their salaries through advertising contracts and the FDA is a bunch of BUREAUCRATS who prostitute themselves to lobbyists that represent "corporate interests" and very few [IF ANY] bureaucrats in the FDA are qualified scientists!

 

Just in case you want to hear from "qualified" individuals ... here's a DOCTOR discussing the known hazards of GMO'S with a PROFESSOR EMERITUS! This discussion requires the listener to pay attention to what is being said ...

It goes into Geo-political details and is very enlightening to people who seek the TRUTH! ...  enjoy the conversation ...

 

Part 1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPp_1BowWjc&feature=relmfu

Part 2.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23D19tTyuuA&feature=relmfu

Part 3.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prt25vr48Xs&feature=relmfu

Part 4.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e03wCwlLtm8&feature=relmfu

Part 5.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYMFVr20jU&feature=relmfu

Part 6.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnDMx1AmgFs&feature=relmfu
 


Edited by 2SHEA - 8/14/12 at 1:43am
post #6 of 16

 

From the first link you provided: WHO

"As a first step, the WHO Executive Board will discuss the content of a WHO report covering this subject in January 2003".


Although I read the entire article,it shed little information on the current situation concerning the Food and Agriculture Organization, their connection to the UN, what has transpired in more than NINE YEARS since this report, Codex Alimentarius ... or the true intentions behind various international organizations implementing world wide acceptance of GMO crops. Seems to me that you like to place too much credence in OUTDATED information!


From the second link you provided: Web MD.

"Regulation for genetically modified foods falls under three jurisdictions: The FDA, EPA, and USDA. But industry experts say the green light on market approval is left mostly to the companies creating the technology. Monsanto Co. dominates the industry, accounting for a 90% share of genetically modified crops worldwide. Dow Chemical Company and Syngenta AG, among others, control the rest".

 

"No serious scientist in the world would stand behind that unless they're on the payroll of the biotech companies. If they're substantially equivalent, why do these companies have a patent on them?" says Ronnie Cummins, national director of the Organic Consumers Association and author of the book, Genetically Engineered Food: A Self-Defense Guide for Consumers. "You can summarize it in three words: [Genetically modified foods] are unpredictable, they are untested, and they are unlabeled."

 

"Despite differing opinions on genetically modified food safety, most experts agree on one point:

The regulation system is flawed".

 

 

The FDA,EPA, and USDA are all working "hand in glove" with each other on behalf of corporate interests and international governments to regulate and control EVERYTHING we do ... including what we eat, drink and the amount of nutritional supplements we're allowed to buy or consume. Do a search on Codex Alimentarius to find out the insidious agenda behind GMO's, requiring a prescription to obtain nutritional supplements, banning farmers from planting non-GM seeds to supposedly protect corporate IPR [Intellectual Property Rights] , and the effort to keep natural seeds from home gardeners. See why the World Health Organization is working with the UN to regulate domestic water collection/use and the right to grow our own vegetables or raise "free range" livestock and poultry. Maybe YOU'RE willing to overlook the possible effects of GM foods on human health while the PTB are hastily collecting every seed species related to food production, filing them away in a SECRET, FROZEN NON-ACCESSIBLE location and severely restricting our ability to feed ourselves ... but to the rest of us, it becomes highly suspicious to say the least! Since GM foods were released on the public without any notifications or warnings from independent scientific studies, we can only conclude that our health and safety is less important than corporate PROFITS to Monsanto, Dow and Syngenta! If the whole story had been released prior to their introduction, the general public would have collectively REJECTED being poisoned by GMO's and this discussion wouldn't be an issue. It was reading about GMO's that brought me to the logical theory that the massive "bee kills" and the mysterious deaths of thousands of birds "dropping from the skies" might be linked to GM crops. Bees that use pollen from GM plants to make honey carry a genetically created insecticide into their hives, where it contaminates other bees and indiscriminately wipes them out! Birds eat insects AND seeds. If the insects they eat were feeding on a GM crop, or the seeds the birds ate were GM seeds, the birds are in double jeopardy! Bio-tech companies fail to adequately research the long term effects their "Intellectual Properties" have on fish, insects, wildlife and especially humans before putting them into the environment and the whole world ends up paying the consequences!

 

Gregory Jaffe, director of the Biotechnology Project at the Center for Science in the Public Interest...says a CSPI study released in January 2003 showed that biotech companies don't always voluntarily comply with federal requirements"...  "They did not do state-of-the-art tests when they needed to do those. In some instances they had errors in their submissions, and the agency did not do a thorough review of those"...

 

 

post #7 of 16
Thread Starter 

your saying the US gov't is on the payroll of monsanto??  right... 

Mon paid 5 mil in 2011 in lobbying.  It takes a lot of money to get patents through. 

 

You organic guys have hired your own scientists as well give out biased research reports.  Organic is big business as well..so it pays$$$ to bash on Monsanto. 

 

And the thing with all the negative reports with the Filipines and bees or whatnot.  They are very inconsistent.  There are other things doing the damage but GM crops is a convenient scapegoat.

 If GM crops were that bad as u say, all the bees, birds and animals would be dying..

corn pollen is everywhere in america but i havent heard of anyone dying.  have u?

 

"No serious scientist in the world would stand behind that unless they're on the payroll of the biotech companies. If they're substantially equivalent, why do these companies have a patent on them?" says Ronnie Cummins, national director of the Organic Consumers Association and author of the book, Genetically Engineered Food: A Self-Defense Guide for Consumers. "You can summarize it in three words: [Genetically modified foods] are unpredictable, they are untested, and they are unlabeled."

 -  ya thats not a biased quote at all..

 

Like i said before, i think another 10-20 years of results will be needed to reassure people about this product.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jun/13/gm-crops-environment-study

 

 

 

post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankndapot View Post
Can i hear some reasons why GM products are so bad and have facts behind it?   I've seen  nothing scientifically proven and theres been hundreds if not thousands of studies on these foods that we eat every day. 

 

No crazy posts about agent orange or all the crap in the past..I actually want someone to convince me NOT to eat GM food anymore.  facts.

 

Obviously, your mind is already made up. All you're doing is promoting an opinion of GM foods and why you believe they're "harmless"...

The reason you claim not to have seen anything "scientifically proven" is because you have a self proclaimed "bias" that prevents FACTS from having any influence on your thinking. I've tried to present as much evidence as possible to broaden your knowledge of GMO's but you stubbornly reject everything that's being presented in favor of a preconceived conclusion! I could care less if you want to be a willing lab rat in a government sponsored Frankenfood experiment. That's your choice! What pisses me off is the food industry passed it on to consumers without understanding all the potential dangers associated with GMO's on human DNA and our immune system. They did it behind our backs like a thief in the night because they KNEW people wouldn't accept foods that were "created" in a lab. Quit asking me for "facts" that you refuse to consider ... If a PhD and a physician can't provide the evidence you seek, it's a waste of time for anyone to try!

post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankndapot View Post

your saying the US gov't is on the payroll of monsanto??  right... 

Mon paid 5 mil in 2011 in lobbying.  It takes a lot of money to get patents through. 

 

You organic guys have hired your own scientists as well give out biased research reports.  Organic is big business as well..so it pays$$$ to bash on Monsanto. 

 

And the thing with all the negative reports with the Filipines and bees or whatnot.  They are very inconsistent.  There are other things doing the damage but GM crops is a convenient scapegoat.

 If GM crops were that bad as u say, all the bees, birds and animals would be dying..

corn pollen is everywhere in america but i havent heard of anyone dying.  have u?

 

"No serious scientist in the world would stand behind that unless they're on the payroll of the biotech companies. If they're substantially equivalent, why do these companies have a patent on them?" says Ronnie Cummins, national director of the Organic Consumers Association and author of the book, Genetically Engineered Food: A Self-Defense Guide for Consumers. "You can summarize it in three words: [Genetically modified foods] are unpredictable, they are untested, and they are unlabeled."

 -  ya thats not a biased quote at all..

 

Like i said before, i think another 10-20 years of results will be needed to reassure people about this product.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jun/13/gm-crops-environment-study

 

 

Quote:

your saying the US gov't is on the payroll of monsanto??  right...

 

 That question is totally incognizant ... or you're so resigned to "bias" you don't grasp the implications of politics.

Nowhere did I state that the US government was "on the payroll" of Monsanto! Planted BUREAUCRATS are!

Do you know that ex-Monsanto people were "appointed" to key positions in the EPA, USDA, and FDA?...

Strategically positioned "accomplices" are in every branch of government conspiring to pass or re-write laws

that benefit their masters. It's no surprise that Monsanto has 90% dominance in the GM seed market with so

many loyal, high level "insiders" in place! Conflicts of interest are prevalent in all levels of government.

 

And yeah, it does take a lot of money to get a patent through! But without their stooges in key positions within the

government, multi-million dollar bribes to add incentive to get the patents driven through, [to protect their IPR's]

Monsanto would be powerless to challenge its monopoly over the will of the people and GM crops would be outlawed!

Just like every other pie in the sky program that promises "lower prices, more production and higher quality", it FAILED!

Instead, we have HIGHER prices, LOWER production, LESS quality and unknown SIDE EFFECTS as a bonus. Whoopee!

What's next? ... GM diseases with "cumulative, time released agents" that attack specific races of humans?

 

Quote:

If GM crops were that bad as u say, all the bees, birds and animals would be dying..

 

 

The statements about bees and whole flocks of birds dying were my theories ... nothing else!

No scientific studies led me to make those statements, just observation and pondering.

 

Quote:

"You can summarize it in three words: [Genetically modified foods] are unpredictable, they are untested, and they are unlabeled."

 -  ya thats not a biased quote at all..

 

That statement and the words before it were in "quotation" from the link YOU provided @ Web MD to support your case!
Those were not my words ... they came from the article! And you think I'm biased? ... Do you even READ what you link?

 

The Guardian? ... UK? ... Bwaaaahahahahaha

You should read the comments! Hysterically funny that 99% of the comments disagreed with the article!

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 

i just quoted a few things for basic information for people that dont know a whole lot about GM foods.  Everything i post isnt just for you buddy.

 

One thing u quoted in the argument that BT toxin is harmful to us..:

 

People with compromised immune systems or pre-existing allergies may be particularly susceptible to the effects of Bt."

"Repeated exposure via inhalation can result in sensitization and allergic response in hypersensitive individuals."

 

- note the bolded parts...  need i explain further?

 

Most the scientific articles and whatnot u post is full of maybes and possibilities..  most of the concrete data i see supports GM safety.  .

 

and i read how the Monsanto exec is now working in the EPA in some capacity.  Its pretty common thing for an experienced person in the industry to move on in his career to a government job like that.  Those are the type of people the EPA want.  I would bet there are a few organic biased people in the EPA there as well.   

 

If these products were really a slow acting poison as u say then down the road Monsanto would be f'd.  go bankrupt, half the board sent to prison..

They want to make money for the longterm..Having a safe, regulated product is what they are trying to do.  Its not some sneaky conspiracy to slowly poison the worlds population. 

With as much controversy around these products, im surprised any new patents are getting approved..but they are..which gives me more confidence on its safety.

 

Oh and every politician favors a particular party or company i believe.  Some work for the oil companies, the pharmaceuticals, the organic crowd, MMJ, Biotech..I think the whole system is corrupt.  so maybe on that we can agree.  Im a big supporter of MMJ btw. 

 

dont forget organic is a 11 Billion business as well.  it pays to bash GM products!!

 

 

post #11 of 16

I don't see the point of this thread but I'll add three things:

 

Monsanto works with the US Government very closely and they have friends in high places. Part of the reason for this is because Monsanto provides the chemical weapons for the Army and Monsanto products were used exclusively in Vietnam which allowed them to open up military contracts and get government corporation. 

 

GMO probably aren't bad for you. I for one don't have problems with it up to a certain extent. As long as cows still have four legs and apples grow on trees it sounds about right to me. (I have not looked into the health aspects but I can't imagine it being that bad). The only issue is with the herbicide/pesticides added in. That shit kills. 

 

Lastly, GMO is 70% of Monsanto's business. The other 30% is herbicides/pesticides. No one said anything about conspiracies, but they get to control the product because they own the patent and that is also an issue. If you plant a GMO seed without Monsanto's permission you can get sued. The issue with this is that it's not regulated by a government agency or whatever, but the company gets to decide who plants and who doesn't and that's not always a good thing.

post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chhansen View Post

I don't see the point of this thread but I'll add three things:

 

Monsanto works with the US Government very closely and they have friends in high places. Part of the reason for this is because Monsanto provides the chemical weapons for the Army and Monsanto products were used exclusively in Vietnam which allowed them to open up military contracts and get government corporation. 

 

GMO probably aren't bad for you. I for one don't have problems with it up to a certain extent. As long as cows still have four legs and apples grow on trees it sounds about right to me. (I have not looked into the health aspects but I can't imagine it being that bad). The only issue is with the herbicide/pesticides added in. That shit kills. 

 

Lastly, GMO is 70% of Monsanto's business. The other 30% is herbicides/pesticides. No one said anything about conspiracies, but they get to control the product because they own the patent and that is also an issue. If you plant a GMO seed without Monsanto's permission you can get sued. The issue with this is that it's not regulated by a government agency or whatever, but the company gets to decide who plants and who doesn't and that's not always a good thing.

Point is i wanted to  learn more about possible negatives and also put information out there.  I meet quite a few people that just are so negative against GMO but dont have good explanations..  they just get brainwashed it seems.. 

Kind of created the thread out of boredom as well, maybe it was a bad idea as this subject usually attracts a lot of crazies. 

 

thanks for throwing your opinion out there

post #13 of 16

ill just say the bee population dying off is not a positive regardless if a genetic mutation is at fault.

Also the biggest concern to me in meat and milk are the hormones. You can clearly see the effects of these items over the past 30 years.

Will i live longer than my 98 year old grandfather who is still lucid and alive..? Probably not due to all the processed and hormone injected crap.

nothing else of usefulness to cite or say.. lol

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjoke View Post

ill just say the bee population dying off is not a positive regardless if a genetic mutation is at fault.

 

Bee population dying off is not really related to GMO. Bee population is dying off because of Colony Collapse Disorder which has been linked primarily to parasites/diseases introduced to the United States that kill bees, specifically phorid flies. In California, phorid flies can kill 30% of a hive in one season and if the queen is included, the entire hive is gone in a month. These flies lay their eggs inside of living bees which eventually hatch and eat the bee from the inside out. Furthermore, the flies are carriers of known viruses that effect bees such as deformed wing virus which further decreases hive population. They were previously introduced to America because the flies target fire ants and other poisonous insects in other parts of the world but obviously don't mind killing honey bees as well. 

 

GMO plants still produces pollen so bees can harvest from their flowers just like any other plant. Pesticides allowed in the US don't kill the bees, only disorientate them for the most part.

 

Interestingly enough I just finished reading one of my (past) student's research papers today that happens to be on subject of Colony Collapse Disorder so I felt like sharing my new found knowledge. lol laughing.gif

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjoke View Post

ill just say the bee population dying off is not a positive regardless if a genetic mutation is at fault.

Also the biggest concern to me in meat and milk are the hormones. You can clearly see the effects of these items over the past 30 years.

Will i live longer than my 98 year old grandfather who is still lucid and alive..? Probably not due to all the processed and hormone injected crap.

nothing else of usefulness to cite or say.. lol

life expectancy last 50 years has gone up steadily.  They first started injecting hormones in 1956. 

Your gpa probably had a better diet than most americans now adays.  our portion sizes are just enormous compared to other countries.

i agree eating processed and hormone foods probably isnt that good for us.  But eaten within reason i dont think it will hurt our life expectancy THAT much..  but im just speculating.

 

the bees are definitely worrisome as well..

Congrats to your old man still kickin at 98. 

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 

nice hansen, i forgot about the Colony Collapse Disorder

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