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Affordable Care Act Upheld!

post #1 of 47
6/28/12 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/supreme-court-health-ruling/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

So who's scheduling a party this weekend to celebrate?

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post #2 of 47
6/28/12 at 12:43pm

3OpVh.jpg

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post #3 of 47
6/28/12 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 

^ laughing.gif

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post #4 of 47
6/28/12 at 2:13pm

wait wait...so let me get this straight:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/09/obama-mandate-is-not-a-tax/

 

 

Quote:

By Jacqueline Klingebiel

Sep 20, 2009 9:00am

Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax

ht barack obama george stephanopoulous ll 120628 wblog Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax

Pete Souza/Official White House Photo, Sept. 2009

President Obama signaled in our interview that he was prepared to address some of the concerns raised by key Senator Jay Rockefeller, who called the Baucus bill a “big middle class tax increase” this week.

That means he’ll support more subsidies for middle class families.

But in our most spirited exchange, the President refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy health insurance is equivalent to a tax.

Here it is:

STEPHANOPOULOS:  You were against the individual mandate…

OBAMA:  Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  …during the campaign.  Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t. How is that not a tax?

OBAMA:  Well, hold on a second, George. Here — here’s what’s happening.  You and I are both paying $900, on average — our families — in higher premiums because of uncompensated care.  Now what I’ve said is that if you can’t afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn’t be punished for that.  That’s just piling on. If, on the other hand, we’re giving tax credits, we’ve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we’ve driven down the costs, we’ve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you’ve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances.  And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that’s…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.

OBAMA:  No.  That’s not true, George.  The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase.  What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…

OBAMA:  No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase.  Any…

 

Obama LIED? CONGRESS LIED? DEMOCRATS LIED? LIBERALS LIED? THE MEDIA LIED?......is that so liberals....?

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post #5 of 47
6/28/12 at 2:28pm

Did you really expect them to do anything less? This is just more govt control coming our way. One more foot in the door.....or rear...

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post #6 of 47
6/28/12 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlandsponger View Post

wait wait...so let me get this straight:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/09/obama-mandate-is-not-a-tax/

 

Obama LIED? CONGRESS LIED? DEMOCRATS LIED? LIBERALS LIED? THE MEDIA LIED?......is that so liberals....?

 

This wasn't some covered up secret the court just exposed. This was widely known by practically everyone. It's all about interpretation. Obviously Obama doesn't want to call it a tax. It is more correctly interpreted as a tax penalty IMO. Libs were against the mandate, but that was the only way to get any change in healthcare Repubs would accept, and they still went bat crazy on it. Most Libs wanted single payer or at least some govt. option, not to be forced to buy insurance from businesses.

 

That's all I'm saying. Go back to your rant.

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post #7 of 47
6/28/12 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlandsponger View Post

What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.

 

Yes, but it's my choice to have a car.  Before getting a car, future owner consider's the cost for car insurance.  

 

Why can't it be simple in America?  Why does it always have to be so complicated?  

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post #8 of 47
6/28/12 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matrix2055 View Post

 

Yes, but it's my choice to have a car.  Before getting a car, future owner consider's the cost for car insurance.  

 

Why can't it be simple in America?  Why does it always have to be so complicated?  

so if you choose to live, then you must get insurance?.....wtf

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post #9 of 47
6/28/12 at 2:57pm

The difference with car insurance is that you can choose to drive uninsured, you cant take that risk. If you crash your car.. your loss, too bad.

 

You can also choose to not carry health insurance, but if you break your arm and get rushed to the ER, they will not leave you sitting there with your bone exposed, they will treat you and if you have no money, the hospital will eat the costs... They then pass on the higher prices to everybody else.

 

If you crashed your car, your mechanic will not fix it for free and then pass on the costs to his other customers.

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post #10 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by webChris View Post

 

This wasn't some covered up secret the court just exposed. This was widely known by practically everyone. It's all about interpretation. Obviously Obama doesn't want to call it a tax. It is more correctly interpreted as a tax penalty IMO. Libs were against the mandate, but that was the only way to get any change in healthcare Repubs would accept, and they still went bat crazy on it. Most Libs wanted single payer or at least some govt. option, not to be forced to buy insurance from businesses.

 

That's all I'm saying. Go back to your rant.

 

Exactly

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post #11 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StockJock-e View Post

The difference with car insurance is that you can choose to drive uninsured, you cant take that risk. If you crash your car.. your loss, too bad.

 

You can also choose to not carry health insurance, but if you break your arm and get rushed to the ER, they will not leave you sitting there with your bone exposed, they will treat you and if you have no money, the hospital will eat the costs... They then pass on the higher prices to everybody else.

 

If you crashed your car, your mechanic will not fix it for free and then pass on the costs to his other customers.

Most hospitals overcharge you if you have no insurance so they can take a larger loss on taxes.

I know, because I was looking at $14,500 hospital bill with no insurance. I went to each doctors office and negotiated a settlement....that 14k went down to 3.5k...

Now if they can settle for 20% of what they charged me originally, and still make a profit, that tells me costs are way too high to begin with, and they're making a fortune on those who DO pay.

 

Funny thing is, they ran a credit check on me before they would even look at me....what does that tell you?

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post #12 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFart View Post

Most hospitals overcharge you if you have no insurance so they can take a larger loss on taxes.

I know, because I was looking at $14,500 hospital bill with no insurance. I went to each doctors office and negotiated a settlement....that 14k went down to 3.5k...

 

Geez, thats crazy!

 

Now is that $3.5k still covering their cost or did they have to eat a loss on that?

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post #13 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StockJock-e View Post

 

Geez, thats crazy!

 

Now is that $3.5k still covering their cost or did they have to eat a loss on that?

I think they overcharged to begin with....3.5k was probably at cost with a "small" profit.

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post #14 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFart View Post

I think they overcharged to begin with....3.5k was probably at cost with a "small" profit.

 

So if you were insured, they would have happily billed your insurance company $14,500.

 

Those prices are way out of whack with reality.

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post #15 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by StockJock-e View Post

 

So if you were insured, they would have happily billed your insurance company $14,500.

 

Those prices are way out of whack with reality.

no, I think they would have charged the insurance company 3.5k...

 

think about this:

If I couldn't have paid the bill, and they were forced to write the loss off, they would get more tax write off at 14.5k than a 3.5k loss.

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post #16 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:26pm

Insurance companies get way overbilled, they expect it.

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post #17 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:29pm

I think insurance companies have better negotiators than me though, so although they may get charged more, I'm pretty sure they have a division of negotiators on their team to make it right.

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post #18 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:30pm
Doctors always overcharge by about 100-150% so that they make some money. IMO, doctors are underpaid and they should be making 2-3x what they're currently making. Also, Obamacare will put millions onto Medicaid and Medicaid pays close to nothing. Many doctors don't even accept Medicaid so those millions of new Medicaid recipients probably won't get any care whatsoever.
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post #19 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFart View Post

so if you choose to live, then you must get insurance?.....wtf

 

It's not your choice to select to be born or not to be born; it's not your choice to select if you want to live or not.  If somebody decides to end there life, and that would be a known fact, that person will be stopped by the government to make that choice.

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post #20 of 47
6/28/12 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom08 View Post

 IMO, doctors are underpaid and they should be making 2-3x what they're currently making.

 

What do you consider underpaid?

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