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Investing vs. Trading vs. Gambling

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

March 9, 2012:

 

"I have been observing StockTwits and Twitter as it relates to trading for about a year and a half now and I would like to relay some of my observations, perhaps very obvious to some. I think it is crucial to first off describe the differences of investing vs. trading vs. gambling.  The investor is someone who typically seeks out an edge through value with a longer time frame.  An investor might invest in diversified ETFs or mutual funds and such stocks as BAC, JPM, GE, XOM, and PG.  The trader is someone who typically seeks out an edge through growth with a shorter time frame (note that the goal of many traders is to be in a strong growth stock for a longer time frame as huge gains can be made, but in general the time frame is shorter).  A trader might trade such stocks as AAPL, ALXN, PCLN, MA, and SBUX. A gambler is someone who has no edge who relies on luck in the short-term while in a longer time frame will always lose money.  Though some believe that investing is a more of a gamble, like Jesse Livermore who states that investors “make a bet, stay with it, and if it goes wrong, they lose it all,” I believe investing has its place, such as investing in diversified low-cost ETFs in retirement accounts which require peace of mind and inherent longer time frames.  Clearly it is possible to trade in one account and invest in another (and even gamble in a third!).  Regardless, a trade that is made without an edge (such as beyond a pivot point or clear breakout on poor quality stocks or even top quality stocks in a poor acting market or without increased volume) is a gamble.  I believe this unique commitment and patience required for succesful trading makes investing better for 90% of individuals.

 

So how does this apply to StockTwits and Twitter?  What I have observed are naive users who seek out tips on these services (and even CNBC which routinely features unaccountables who provide advice with no indication of their own strategy) on when to buy and sell stocks not knowing the other user’s time frame, risk tolerance, entry point, sell rules, goals, overall strategy etc.  It seems that these lemmings desire some sort of human confirmation before acting. These users who are clearly blindly following others and high-flying extended stocks show up in droves in an uptrend but disappear when the overall market changes, probably along with their portfolio.  These users do not understand the behavior of the stocks they are entering and do not have their own clear strategy.  A study of INVN on StockTwits is a fascinating study as many users were clearly following others who were making purchases on a pure guess that a low was set and then selling at a lose as it fell through its 50-day moving average.  The fact that these users sold reveals that they are traders, albeit gambling traders.  A simple study of INVN’s volume showed a purchase at this second bounce from the 50-day moving average lacked any sort of trader’s edge and therefore was and still remains a gamble for the trader.   It remains debatable on whether INVN currently has an investor’s edge.

 

Long story short, obviously someone who partakes in the market must clearly understand their own strategy (write it down!).  My suggestion for those who use  StockTwits and Twitter for market purposes is to seek out other user’s who clearly have the same methodology and ignore the lemmings.  It is the investor or trader who avoids gambling by remaining true to a strategy, whether that is the methodology of Livermore, Darvis, or O’Neil or not, that is most succesful."

post #2 of 10

Trading successfully has much to do with recognizing that the risk is in the trader, not in the markets.

post #3 of 10

All in all is just a strong believe in luck. Some of the moves can be predictable and you can count your benefits but it will be always a worry.

post #4 of 10

I once wrote a blog post about Gambling vs. Investing. Basically its about comparing Gambling and Investing and the belief that Investing is based on skill and not luck. I say this because I don't know of a famous gambler who won all the time. I do know investors who know what they're doing and make a living at investing. I don't believe in the news. If you're using the news to figure out when to buy and sell stocks then your already too too late. The stock has already moved on that piece of information. Plus everyone has an agenda even the news.


 

post #5 of 10

I don't like labels because anyone labeling is usually bias towards the superiority of "investors" (not to say you are).  I personally think most people are hybrids.  Like you said, you can have 3 different accounts, using different strategies for each.  You can invest in any volatile stock as I'm sure there are original investors that bought aapl on day 1 and never sold to this day.  I do believe in following a strategy but it doesn't have to be much.  Economies have tended to grow from the dawn of civilization so this will likely continue to happen until war or some galactic event happens.  Also, I do believe that markets are volatile and think people need to employ more conservative investments/trades/gambles if they want to ensure long term success. (i.e., don't make huge initial bets).  Finally, I believe experience is important and you get a lot of experience points stomaching losses in investments that you believe in.

post #6 of 10

Many markets have been compared to gambling. More specifically, the most volatile market (aka forex) - it's very risky but there are some very important differences. I will list my source at the end if you want to read up on them.

Some key facts that relate trading/investing to gambling are:
- Novice traders
- Business correlations
- The risk reward ratio

Source: http://www.forextraders.com/forex-money-management/forex-trading-versus-gambling.html
 

post #7 of 10

Many markets have been compared to gambling. More specifically, the most volatile market (aka forex) - it's very risky but there are some very important differences.

Some key facts that relate trading/investing to gambling are:
- Novice traders
- Business correlations
- Assessing the risk reward ratio

Source: http://www.forextraders.com/forex-money-management/forex-trading-versus-gambling.html
 

post #8 of 10
Its always part of a larger system. So gamblers will statistically be less successful than those who do their research. The idea of luck is subjective.
post #9 of 10

people play not only for money, the gambling can be with more fun.

also, that is why MM can make money from them.

post #10 of 10

As long as both make a living / profit, does it really matter?

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