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Monitoring for a somewhat rare VIX buy/sell signal (Using Bollinger Bands)

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

This thread is just for fun and to test the VIX buy/sell signal I read about a few years ago. The signal and trigger has three main steps or criteria to it. You need a daily chart of the VIX (Volatility Index) with the default bollinger bands.

 

1. First off your looking for a VIX candle to close outside of the bollinger bands. I seem to notice the signal is even more effective if you can get an entire candle body to form outside of the lines (both open and closing prices).

 

2. Once you get the candle that closes outside of the bands, then the actual signal doesn't form until you get a candle to close back inside the bands.

 

3. Once you have the signal, the final thing to look for is the trigger. Wherever the VIX closed back inside of the bands from step 2, that's the trigger line, and basically you're just looking for the next VIX that closes past that line.

 

big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=vix&uf=8&type=4&size=4&sid=1704273&style=350&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=4&rand=1467609806&compidx=aaaaa%3a0&ma=0&maval=9&lf=2&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=635&width=1045&mocktick=1

 

I probably did a poor job of explaining the signal and trigger, but once you get the concept it's very easy. Yesterday's (March 13) VIX candle did indeed close below the lower bollinger band, and in fact it also opened below it as well. That's a good way to check off the first step in the checklist, with the entire candle body forming below the lower line. Today the VIX is looking strong and at the moment is trading back inside of the bands, so I'll be keeping my eye on it and see where it finishes the day. It may not be today, but basically I'm watching to see the next solid close back above the lower line. Once we get that close back inside the bands, then the last thing to do will be to wait for the trigger (a VIX close higher than the first close back inside the bands).

 

So right now we're in the process of seeing if we'll get a VIX buy signal, which is a signal to sell the broad market (volatility and bearish moves tend to go hand in hand). Depending on when or if this signal sets up successfully any time soon, I'll keep this thread updated and we'll see how market responds.  I like that the markets are slightly green but the VIX is chugging along nicely, we'll see if that's a sign of weakness to come.

 

 

post #2 of 19

Good catch, lets see how this unfolds thumbup.gif

post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 

On a related note, in the event that we get a nice fat signal from the VIX here, does anyone have any top-heavy dogs they're following (tempting stocks to shorts)? Anything that looks especially weak or looks like would not hold up well if the market corrected?

post #4 of 19

As always watch for divergences.

 

The two that were weaker on my list were the transports and the Russell..

 

Transports

 

IWM

post #5 of 19

Yeah, I remember reading about this. It's like the VIX daily is a magnet to want to come back in to the lower bolli. When it is outside the lower bolli, it's not very long that's for sure.

post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post

This thread is just for fun and to test the VIX buy/sell signal I read about a few years ago. The signal and trigger has three main steps or criteria to it. You need a daily chart of the VIX (Volatility Index) with the default bollinger bands.

 

 

I probably did a poor job of explaining the signal and trigger, but once you get the concept it's very easy.

 

 



You did a great job Simon. Even I understand it. banana.gif

 

post #7 of 19

Interesting method Simon. Reminds me another I learned with you, well its not yours but you gave me the link for that. It was Dr. Burns (?) method of price returning to 50MA!

 

About tempting stocks to short I can leave you a couple of ideas: CRM seems one of them, climbing but with descending volume, I would avoid LNKD (one of my fav short stocks), ascending with good volume (FB effect?), take a look also to BIDU, seems to be loosing steam...

 

Thank for your sharing Simon.

post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 

I thought for sure VIX was going to close around 16 but it sold off into the close. However it did still close clearly back inside the bands, so I think it's safe to say we have the signal, now it's time for a potential trigger. We need to see a close on the VIX higher than today's close, once we have that it's a triggered setup. Once the setup has been triggered, from what I know the ensuing move (in this case market down/ VIX up) tends to take place (start) in the following week.

 

big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=vix&uf=8&type=4&size=4&sid=1704273&style=350&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=4&rand=1532366767&compidx=aaaaa%3a0&ma=0&maval=9&lf=2&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=635&width=1045&mocktick=1

post #9 of 19
I like this concept, and have been watching the VIX for this type of signal for a while now, probably around a year. The part of this method I do not agree with is the trigger. It seems better to use a close outside of the bands as a signal. The confirming close as trigger is probably a reflection of a broader buy/sell strategy which makes sense for most equities/instruments, but with VIX, it's practically deathly allergic to residing outside of the bands. In fact, if you backtest the strategy of simply buying on the close when it closes outside of the bands, then doubling down if the next open is lower, I'm very confident the overall performance of the strategy would do substantially better. Of course, this thread has not gotten to the exit strategy, so maybe I should have held my breath, as it is possible my idea would lead to too many cases of being stopped out... but without checking the chart, my gut is telling me that the false signals have either not been there at all, or have been greatly outweighed by extra profits from jumping in at the signal, not the trigger as described in the first post.

The VIX sell signal is also interesting, as VIX loves bollies and doesn't want to be above or below. After last Tuesday's selling, I was out of town without my wonderful den full of charts, and felt the selling would continue. Then I browsed over to stock charts website and drew up VIX daily. I saw the close nine cents under the upper bollie, went straight to HSM to pretty much withdraw almost all of my bearish bias just based on that, and sure enough 3-4 days later we were pressing the lower bollie. It's quite amazing how the VIX and bollies are like gin and olives.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post

On a related note, in the event that we get a nice fat signal from the VIX here, does anyone have any top-heavy dogs they're following (tempting stocks to shorts)? Anything that looks especially weak or looks like would not hold up well if the market corrected?

Well... the train has probably already left the station for the miners, but they could continue to suffer in a good pullback or trend change. Energy, especially both coal and oil/gas seem to be vulnerable, and as SJE mentioned transports to some degree, NSC and UNP leap to mind. I did a few scans and liked the look and feel of these charts as an answer to your question, gives some ideas. Themes I mentioned are almost all of the charts... let's see JAZZ, JOY, MET, HPQ but not many outside of the groups mentioned.

http://finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=211&f=cap_midover,sh_avgvol_o300,sh_price_o20,sh_relvol_o1,ta_sma50_pb&ft=3&t=AEM,APC,BTU,CNQ,FCX,GLNG,HPQ,JAZZ,JNPR,JOY,KMP,MET,NSC,RIO,SLW,TCK,TOT,TWX,UNP
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando View Post

I like this concept, and have been watching the VIX for this type of signal for a while now, probably around a year. The part of this method I do not agree with is the trigger. It seems better to use a close outside of the bands as a signal. The confirming close as trigger is probably a reflection of a broader buy/sell strategy which makes sense for most equities/instruments, but with VIX, it's practically deathly allergic to residing outside of the bands. In fact, if you backtest the strategy of simply buying on the close when it closes outside of the bands, then doubling down if the next open is lower, I'm very confident the overall performance of the strategy would do substantially better. Of course, this thread has not gotten to the exit strategy, so maybe I should have held my breath, as it is possible my idea would lead to too many cases of being stopped out... but without checking the chart, my gut is telling me that the false signals have either not been there at all, or have been greatly outweighed by extra profits from jumping in at the signal, not the trigger as described in the first post.
The VIX sell signal is also interesting, as VIX loves bollies and doesn't want to be above or below. After last Tuesday's selling, I was out of town without my wonderful den full of charts, and felt the selling would continue. Then I browsed over to stock charts website and drew up VIX daily. I saw the close nine cents under the upper bollie, went straight to HSM to pretty much withdraw almost all of my bearish bias just based on that, and sure enough 3-4 days later we were pressing the lower bollie. It's quite amazing how the VIX and bollies are like gin and olives.


Thanks for the input. As for timing the trigger, I'm just following what I've read, but I like your more aggressive approach. Right now I'm more or less just trying to experiment here, so the feedback is much appreciated.

 

post #12 of 19
If you are in research mode, testing both entry points on their own, as well as a two-stage entry buying half on the signal and half on the trigger... seems like good data to crunch. The bottom line is that fading spikes in any direction seems to be a good odds play with the VIX.
post #13 of 19
Thread Starter 

It wasn't much, but it did indeed close above yesterday's close. I guess this is where the subjective nature of trading comes into play. Do you wait for a stronger signal or just take this one?

 

big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=vix&uf=8&type=4&size=4&sid=1704273&style=350&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=4&rand=1423963377&compidx=aaaaa%3a0&ma=0&maval=9&lf=2&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=635&width=1045&mocktick=1

 

I say it's good enough. Let's see if the market starts to sell off any time soon.

post #14 of 19
So... what is the sell signal? That gap up around 10% outside the bollies should certainly qualify.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonyadig View Post

It wasn't much, but it did indeed close above yesterday's close. I guess this is where the subjective nature of trading comes into play. Do you wait for a stronger signal or just take this one?

 

big.chart?nosettings=1&symb=vix&uf=8&type=4&size=4&sid=1704273&style=350&freq=1&entitlementtoken=0c33378313484ba9b46b8e24ded87dd6&time=4&rand=1423963377&compidx=aaaaa%3a0&ma=0&maval=9&lf=2&lf2=0&lf3=0&height=635&width=1045&mocktick=1

 

I say it's good enough. Let's see if the market starts to sell off any time soon.

 

IMO this was a very weak signal. VIX actually had a bearish close if you consider the actual candle.

 

I say up tomorrow, but I'm in calls so I have a biased opinion laughing.gif
 

 

post #16 of 19
Very weak signal to do what? I think the VIX sell signal on that big gap up was a strong sell the VIX signal... that's what I was getting at. Of course I am speaking in hindsight, but there was already an established pattern of VIX moving up substantially intraday and giving most if not all of it back (this is at least third time in roughly one week).
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando View Post

fading spikes in any direction seems to be a good odds play with the VIX.

QFPosterity
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando View Post

Very weak signal to do what? I think the VIX sell signal on that big gap up was a strong sell the VIX signal... that's what I was getting at. Of course I am speaking in hindsight, but there was already an established pattern of VIX moving up substantially intraday and giving most if not all of it back (this is at least third time in roughly one week).


lol my bad... i wasn't even paying attention. simon's post was from 2 weeks ago, thought it was from today laughing.gif

 

But yeah, I was referring to today's close on the VIX. Thinking the VIX goes down tomorrow, markets up.

post #19 of 19
Ha... I figured that was the case but didn't want to cast any aspersions on what you were doing (you could have had some different angle). The VIX buy signal is based on being below the lower bolly, and as I pointed out fading any big spikes in general works, so a big gap up spike out of the upper bolly should be a pretty good sell signal. In this case, with the bollies narrowing considerably since the buy signal fired, the returns on this hypothetical trade would be IMO pretty lackluster around 20%... still a great trade for the hold time frame, but I'd expect this trade technique to consistently yield 25-30% or more, depending on the volatility and buy price. Also, a rejection of the 50 day at the upper bollie (in the case of this particular trade) might be a "last chance" to exit for any holders.
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