Or better yet, how do you smooth out the bi-polar highs and lows of capitalism? Its during the lows that this kind of thing will happen. And you cant say its this person or that person, this corporation or that one. Its not an individual entity, its something within the workings of capitalism itself that needs to be corrected. We are, or at least were a free market capitalistic society, and if it was as good as people said it was then we shouldnt be worrying about anything. The system will correct itself. Or will it? If it doesnt, guess what your perfect model wasnt perfect.
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- vlandsponger
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Or better yet, how do you smooth out the bi-polar highs and lows of capitalism? Its during the lows that this kind of thing will happen. And you cant say its this person or that person, this corporation or that one. Its not an individual entity, its something within the workings of capitalism itself that needs to be corrected. We are, or at least were a free market capitalistic society, and if it was as good as people said it was then we shouldnt be worrying about anything. The system will correct itself. Or will it? If it doesnt, guess what your perfect model wasnt perfect.
crony capitalism bran...
what we have now is CORRUPTED BY POLITICIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!! (influenced by big corps and unions)
but you wont see these occupiers go after CONGRESS........hypocrites
- vlandsponger
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Oh come on you act like they are the leaders of this thing. Do you know how many different groups march daily in the big cities? This isnt representative of the movement, although Im sure there are plenty of hijackers. I cant, in all honesty, say what is central to this movement, but I believe what "should" evolve here is a solid movement against "bad capitalism" and greed. You said Capitalism should be restored, but I agree with the first part of what you said in that it should be taken apart. To be restored wouldnt help. If there was once a perfect capitalistic structure, then the failings of our economy would never have happened, cant you agree? So restore capitalism? No. But I dont think going backwards to Communism or even Socialism is the answer either. If you want Ill say I agree with a "new and improved capitalism." However, any system that could care less for the meak is not a solution.
So the real question is this whats after Capitalism?
so theres two points to this...
the capitalism issue....which im sure we can find a way to fix it together...
the "diversity" of this movement....show me where TEA PARTY members, or REPUBLICANS, or CONSERVATIVES, or ANYONE ON THE RIGHT are supportive of THESE PEOPLE.......the sad part is you sit there and try to blow this off acting as if there are so many different groups involved that no one "agenda" is being pushed....when its OBVIOUS what is being pushed is the FAR LEFT RADICAL AGENDA.....we post videos, we have EVIDENCE of unions FUNDING, SOROS FUNDING, FAR LEFT ORGANIZATIONS FUNDING this movement and of course the liberal media painting this as a peaceful and "GREAT" thing while cop cars get crapped on, american flags are stomped on, "fuck america" is sung, the communist party USA is CHEERED and marches with the occupiers, MANY democratic/liberal "leaders" are supportive of this, MOST of the occupiers hate capitalism and corporations and want HIGHER taxes.....ALLLLLLLLLLLL the far left signs...and yet you sit here and say this isnt true...
you really are ignorant or just plain stupid bran...
stop lying, stop lying to yourself, stop TRYING to lie to others...wake up
I find this movement to be rather fascinating, and I honestly sympathize with them, after seeing such grievous market manipulation over the last decade.
The problem is the major news media seems to be spinning the hell out of the protests in order to discredit them as a bunch of clueless dirty hippies, since they are backed by the very people everyone is protesting against.
The legitimate issues that I have seen voiced, which the movement seem to be genuinely centered around, are systemic problems in the financial sector which are leading to an ever widening income gap. Adjusted for inflation, wages are at an all time low, while corporate profits are at highs. Owners of capital are basically just keeping larger shares of the pie than they did 20 years ago. The three main grievances and solutions I keep seeing repeated are:
-The banking sector is corrupt. People are pissed that the repeal of Glass–Steagall has allowed commercial banks to turn back into investment banks, the result of which was the financial meltdown of 2008. They're also pissed because more and more people are learning how the Federal Reserve banking system works, and think its insane that banks can, for example, borrow from the fed at almost no interest, and turn right back around and lend that same money to the treasury at 2%+ interest... basically printing free money, and footing tax payers with the bill.
They suggest: Reintroduction of banking regulations and some monopoly busting. Too big to fail? Too big to exist.
-The current corporate system encourages executives to achieve short term profits at the expense of long term success. CEO's slash and burn companies in order to get a quick rise in stock "value", so they can exercise their options and cash out. Once they've "got mine", they jump ship with their golden parachute, leaving a damaged company behind.
They want things such as: Introduction of regulation to the derivatives markets, and perhaps progressively tax short term investments over long ones. Only owned a stock for a minute and 38 seconds? Pay a higher tax on your profits than the guy who held it for a year. Remove the Capital gains tax, and charge a more normal income rate for your tax bracket. Also big support for introducing transaction taxes... small fees attached to each trade to discourage things like HFT manipulation.
-Get the money out of Washington. OWS protesters feel that both Republicans and Democrats will claim/say whatever it takes to get elected, and in the end they all pander to Corporations over the people. They do this, of course, because Corporations (and rich people who own them) are the ones who hire lobbyists and fund campaigns.
They suggest: No one really knows yet, its such an encompassing problem.. although this leads to my own personal hopes for this "movement":
As a trader and business owner, I can see all sides of this argument. My hope is that rather than trying to push through any type of rash legislation or political pandering, I'd like to see the rise of a new, truly independent political party. One that can actually give both Republicans and Democrats a run for their money, and scare them out of this gridlock that we now find ourselves in.
What you are seeing in the streets right now in major cities all around the world is a major shifting of ideology, not simply some interest group ramping up their campaign. Its still a morphing thing, and they're assimilating ideas and educating each other about the ways of the economy every day.
- vlandsponger
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So... is that crazy person speak for "I disagree that the problems you listed above exist, and suggest that we let them eat cake"?
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- maybenow
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You wont' find this on Fox, I'll bet my bottom dollar.
By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer – 7 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — A prominent physicist and skeptic of global warming spent two years trying to find out if mainstream climate scientists were wrong. In the end, he determined they were right: Temperatures really are rising rapidly.
The study of the world's surface temperatures by Richard Muller was partially bankrolled by a foundation connected to global warming deniers. He pursued long-held skeptic theories in analyzing the data. He was spurred to action because of "Climategate," a British scandal involving hacked emails of scientists.
Yet he found that the land is 1.6 degrees Fahrenheit (1 degree Celsius) warmer than in the 1950s. Those numbers from Muller, who works at the University of California, Berkeley, and Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, match those by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA.
He said he went even further back, studying readings from Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. His ultimate finding of a warming world, to be presented at a conference Monday, is no different from what mainstream climate scientists have been saying for decades.
What's different, and why everyone from opinion columnists to cable TV 's satirical"The Daily Show" is paying attention is who is behind the study.
One-quarter of the $600,000 to do the research came from the Charles Koch Foundation, whose founder is a major funder of skeptic groups and the conservative tea party movement. The Koch brothers, Charles and David, run a large privately held company involved in oil and other industries, producing sizable greenhouse gas emissions.
Muller's research team carefully examined two chief criticisms by skeptics. One is that weather stations are unreliable; the other is that cities, which create heat islands, were skewing the temperature analysis.
"The skeptics raised valid points and everybody should have been a skeptic two years ago," Muller said in a telephone interview. "And now we have confidence that the temperature rise that had previously been reported had been done without bias."
Muller said that he came into the study "with a proper skepticism," something scientists "should always have. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that there was not enough skepticism" before.
- maybenow
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Or better yet, how do you smooth out the bi-polar highs and lows of capitalism? Its during the lows that this kind of thing will happen. And you cant say its this person or that person, this corporation or that one. Its not an individual entity, its something within the workings of capitalism itself that needs to be corrected. We are, or at least were a free market capitalistic society, and if it was as good as people said it was then we shouldnt be worrying about anything. The system will correct itself. Or will it? If it doesnt, guess what your perfect model wasnt perfect.
I think Capitalism is okay, as long as it is executed with morals. And yes, we can all disagree on what's moral, and debate it ad nauseam—allowing unwonted greed to suck the life out of the lower and middle classes is just wrong from every angle.
Not that you'll hear about this from Fox or Rush, but 9/15 issue Rolling Stone magazine refers to a study that finds "mean people make more money." (p. 51)
Which has always been my personal observation... I have to admit that my rich friends are douches.
- maybenow
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One rich friend was shoving ski racing down their kids' throats... they were buying 17 pairs of news skis, boots and gear a year, until one of the boys decided he wanted to concentrate on soccer.
You know what his father said to me?
"Anybody can buy a ball and a pair of cleats..., and now my son will never be a star with all the competition from the lower classes. Ski racing is something that only the wealthy can afford."
Ah yes, I replied.
- rolexian
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Or better yet, how do you smooth out the bi-polar highs and lows of capitalism? Its during the lows that this kind of thing will happen. And you cant say its this person or that person, this corporation or that one. Its not an individual entity, its something within the workings of capitalism itself that needs to be corrected. We are, or at least were a free market capitalistic society, and if it was as good as people said it was then we shouldnt be worrying about anything. The system will correct itself. Or will it? If it doesnt, guess what your perfect model wasnt perfect.
A major problem is the federal reserve.
Look, I'm not going to go on a rant like one of the Ron Paul supporters. The federal reserve has benefits. When the private sector wants more access to money, the federal reserve can accomodate it. They can lend out money at low rates, they can allow banks to (fraudulent in a free market) have lower reserves, or they can try and lower the federal funds rate so that it is easier to borrow money. hose are all great violations of a "true" free market. But when the economy is growing, and banks/investors see a lot of opportunity, but don't have the cash to invest in those, the federal reserve can greatly accelerate growth by providing the capital, or at least providing access to the capital. No doubt, that if banks could only loan or invest out of pure savings, a LOT of economic opportunity would have been left untouched, or expounded upon by business in other nations.
The problem is that the private sector, unlike what Ron Paul, Hayek, or really any conservative believes, isn't perfect. It gets caught up in the moment. It behaves irrationally. It is comprised of human beings who are not rational. Government intervention or not, bubbles tend to form because people buy into the hype...they don't evaluate investments in the long-term. This is further exacerbated by hedge-fund managers, publically-owned companies, and the fact that most stock owners are looking for short- and not long-term, gains.
So IMO, even with no government intervention at all, you will have these bubbles. It happened prior to a central bank in the 19th century. But the Federal reserve, or government intervention, makes these bubbles so much worse. That access to the money makes the bubbles so much bigger, because these irrational people now have more capital to do inane things with.
Whether through ignorance, trust of the private sector, or cronyism, the federal reserve never checks the money...if the market wants more money, they provide it. They rely on the private sector to tell them what the supply of moeny should be. In any case, even if the federal reserve independly set the money supply and was more cautious, I doubt that government people woudl make a smart decision.
In summary, the Federal Reserve contributes greatly towards accelerated growth and extended recessions. Right now, everyone is focused on the bust...but it is foolish to forget its benefits during the booms. Can you have one without the other? I don't know...it seems like there could be a middle ground. Why not get rid of the discount window, and raise the minimum reserve requirements from 1 and 10 to 10 and 40?
Edited by rolexian - 10/30/11 at 11:35pm
- vlandsponger
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KEEP IGNORING THE MAIN POINT......................................."global warming" is NOT man made!!!
i hate to break it to your feeble mind but the earth doesn't stay one temperature.....it fluctuates..and we happen to be on the rise....maybe a better point that you could cover would be the COMPARISON of past temperature changes....maybe then you'll understand that were doing just fine and its your EVIL 1% Al Gore types who want to MANIPULATE the world economy around the climate so THEY can cash in....
keep losing...loser
- 2SHEA
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It's amazing how much coverage the OWS protests are getting from major cities in America!
How many here are aware of the upcoming "11-11-11" event in Washington, DC ? ... anyone?
Call to Action: A Declaration to Restore the Constitutional Republic
The first time I heard about it was on 10/6 from Canada Free Press. Not a word from the MSM!
This is a "Restore the Constitution" rally ... totally opposite from the OWS Socialist malcontents.
It will be current military, veterans, Oath Keepers and ANYONE that wants to peaceably gather.
For more details and information ... LINK ... LINK ... LINK ...
- 2SHEA
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Or better yet, how do you smooth out the bi-polar highs and lows of capitalism? Its during the lows that this kind of thing will happen. And you cant say its this person or that person, this corporation or that one. Its not an individual entity, its something within the workings of capitalism itself that needs to be corrected. We are, or at least were a free market capitalistic society, and if it was as good as people said it was then we shouldnt be worrying about anything. The system will correct itself. Or will it? If it doesnt, guess what your perfect model wasnt perfect.
It's not "Capitalism" that's broken ... it's all the cronyism behind the scenes that PREVENTS it from working the way it should.
Insider trading, kickbacks, bribes, "pay for play", corporate bailouts, fraud, money laundering, outrageous "bonuses"...etc, etc.
- Techunter
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SETH BORENSTEIN has a very LONG record of questionable coverage on the subject.
The main one here is Global Warming isn't the issue - ANTHROPOGENICS is.
LibTards can't seperate the two as completely different issues.
All of them are the product of Public School educations......
.
- OldFart
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Seems we're in talks with the taliban.....
Is this another PLO type incident where we hated them and called them terrorists, made a peace agreement with them, and made their leader look like a teddy bear on 60 minutes ( Yassir Arafat )?...
U.S., Afghans in Taliban Talks
- mjoke
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ya i heard something on the news.. asking Syrian people.. would they like the taliban to come into their country and support them...in a positive tone and light?!? i was like did i miss something?...
i nearly fell out of my chair..
... the response was hell no, we dont like them, they are dictators and are in a alliance with Iran..
- OldFart
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what a scerwed up world we live in....

ya i heard something on the news.. asking Syrian people.. would they like the taliban to come into their country and support them...in a positive tone and light?!? i was like did i miss something?...
i nearly fell out of my chair..
... the response was hell no, we dont like them, they are dictators and are in a alliance with Iran..
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