Penny stocks, Stock Picks - HSM


Find
 

Go Back   HotStockMarket Message Boards > HSM Stock Forum > FOREX Forums


$250 - $2500 mini to standard question

FOREX Forums


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Sep 2nd, 2007, 09:30 AM   #1
side_job
HSM Newbie
 
side_job's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MO
Posts: 52
side_job is on the right path
Lightbulb $250 - $2500 mini to standard question

Is it possible start with the minimum deposit in a mini lot account, and with careful planning turn it into a 10 fold increase. This would show that a capital drive from the minimum for a 'mini lot' account to the minimum of a 'standard lot' account is possible.

Can it be done? Has it been done?

Here is a challenge, start with a mini lot account with $250, and let's see if it can be done.

Last edited by side_job; Sep 2nd, 2007 at 02:00 PM.
side_job is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Sep 2nd, 2007, 02:34 PM   #2
wolf825
Moderator
Rank: HSM Hitman
 
wolf825's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: darkest scariest corner of your soul...
Posts: 10,594
wolf825 is an expertwolf825 is an expertwolf825 is an expertwolf825 is an expert
I did a similar test on two of my methods I was testing out at the beginning of this year...it worked but it was NOT easy..not at all. . the more $$ you can start with the better your are...

So 'can it be done/has it been done'...Yes IMO...but you need trade discpline, trade rules, detailed trade planning/risk management and optimal market conditions....

I always like a challenge...what do you have in mind?

-w
__________________

Moderator Disclaimer
"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted...."

Wolf's Forex..Trade Safe-Trade Smart!

About my posted FX Commentary: This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.


wolf825 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd, 2007, 02:43 PM   #3
Graham
HSM Enthusiast
 
Graham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 831
Graham is on the right path
250 I think might be just too little. Of course it's possible. 100 dollars is possible but realistically 1000up is much more workable. I have a 500$ test account which has has made it between 200 and 1700 an currently stands at 680. Now I'm just sitting on a ridiculous limit order waiting
__________________
"One minute your down, the next your right back up again"
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd, 2007, 02:48 PM   #4
side_job
HSM Newbie
 
side_job's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MO
Posts: 52
side_job is on the right path
Actually I can't take credit for the 'idea', I had read on the penny board about Spectre's 500-5000
http://www.hotstockmarket.com/forums...xperiment.html

I thought that it might be a strong teaching experiment if we were able to document ideas, rules, methods, and details of the transactions. After all, 250 is the bait the fx platforms dangle in front of the newbee (like me) and when you read everything from the seasoned traders, they say don't do it.
I have read that on this board, on BabyPips, and probably even on the platform FAQ's. The way I see it, if you can take 250 and turn it into 2500, you probably have the right stuff to trade with the big money. Besides, 250 is much easier to swallow than crashing with 2500.
side_job is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd, 2007, 04:18 PM   #5
wolf825
Moderator
Rank: HSM Hitman
 
wolf825's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: darkest scariest corner of your soul...
Posts: 10,594
wolf825 is an expertwolf825 is an expertwolf825 is an expertwolf825 is an expert
Well let me give a few thoughts... First-the $250 carrot they dangle in front of you, after you have gotten all excited from trading their Demo at full lot sizes and been teased with thousands of dollars flowing around like gravy, is a carrot--its bait to get you to jump in to trading live earlier then you should be. All brokers do it--some of the better brokers let YOU try your demo at a account balance and leverage YOU set to practice for more realistic conditions..they just dont usually TELL you that you can do this or request this of the Demo.

Also, Brokers know the newbie mistakes made en-masse--and they take advantage of those predictable mistakes. They are in business--they know that its a fact that most Forex newbies begin trading live with real money much sooner then they should because of this carrot and the huge demo you got teased with.....and its a fact that nearly every newbie will LOSE their enture account within the first 3-6 months of trading. Brokers are there to make money--they would prefer you give them the $250 rather than collect their pip spread commission. Every newbie will blow out their account at least once if not twice...I know I blew mine out (at least 4 times) before I got a clue..everyone does it. The more you can put off starting out with real $$ and blowing out your account--the more time you can spend LEARNING how to trade Forex...and the better your odds at surviving when you really do start with real $$. When a trader is ready--when you have demo or paper traded with success and devloped a method that works and has been tested and you have months upon months of testing done--the minimum I suggest folks start with for real is $500-$1000... Why--cause you are able to endure more swings--and your risk is proportional to safer and smarter trading.

Brokers know that if you are trading with a $250 account--your Risk percentage is MUCH MUCH higher than what is considered "safe" trading practice. In theory and practice you want to risk NO MORE than 2% of your account on a trade...with a 200:1 leverage on a $10k Lot, that is $50 minimum cost fronted per trade. With $250 in your account and you put $50 on a trade--you are putting up 20% of your account on ONE single lot trade. Add in your stop loss--and you increase that risk to 25 or 30% or more. When you take a hit/loss--that risk percentage to trade increases as your account decreases in size--to the point where your account is risking 50% or more on a single trade--and your broker knows that they pretty much have that money banked for themselves by then. Even with $1000 in your account--$50 plus a stop loss is much MORE than 2% (its 5% or more). Its a safer margin for enduring a hit--but its still a risk.

Realistically, I run into very few folks (myself included) who can do this 2% practice without having a significant account balance or without trading micro-mini's for cents per pip.. Most folks risk sometimes 50% of their account on a trade cause they do not factor in money management for trading--and when they take a hit or loss--that is a significant loss and bad money management. In my opinion--and only my opinion as you will read the 2% rule from EVERY expert out there, but trading any more than 10% in my view on a trade risk is suicide..and many will say my view of 10% is just SLOW suicide. But I never trade more than 8-10% risked in total....but its the risk I assume and can afford, and what I have tested that works for ME (and me alone--this is NOT a rule everyone should or can afford to follow). I can't trade with strict 2% of my account or method of long term trades, and still endure the swings of the market. My account is more than $1k--but iuts following what is proportional. If I placed my stops to maintain a 2% window at that level of $500 or $1k in an account--I would get stopped out every time I traded. So while 2% is the universally stated advice--in real practice unless you are trading with a large balance to begin with, or are trading micro's, it is not easy to do... The more money you build into your account for a trade--the easier it is to get to that 2%-5% and the safer your account trading will go for when trading mini-lots...

When I did my test at the beginning of the year--I stuck with $500 minimum...I traded single lots at first or a double with a tight stop...and I was extremely picky on my trade plans, and the number of trades and so on. I did not trade 50 trades in a day--I made one and stuck with it. I had to be strict with myself...but once I made it over $1k tho--I was able to start expanding my trades to all double lots... By the time I made it over $3k--I was able to do a lot of the trades and targets I had wanted to do and have multiple trades open at once.. But it all starts with taking small careful steps.. The theory of taking $250-$2500 is a real theory and IS a doable one--but again it requires time, a strict strict methodology and detailed trade planning, luck and optimal market conditions. Currently--ask any trader and they will agree that the market blows goats right now..rangebound and uncertain of any direction. Yes trading is possible--but to do the challenge you are putting forth you need LARGE gain potentials and a preferred strong trending market, and right now we do not have that. IMO you need to have those large swing moves and a stable market to get you thru your first few trades and make some gains to increase your account to breathing room...cause even just 2 hits at $250 account will be devastating to staying alive beyond another trade or two.

We can still do the teaching--I'm all for that and everyone knows I'll gladly answer or share any info requested... But I'm just giving you the realism to the theory....
-w
__________________

Moderator Disclaimer
"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted...."

Wolf's Forex..Trade Safe-Trade Smart!

About my posted FX Commentary: This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.


wolf825 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 2nd, 2007, 04:32 PM   #6
side_job
HSM Newbie
 
side_job's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: MO
Posts: 52
side_job is on the right path
Thank you for the wisdom, I am glad to hear that it is theoretically possible; the odds are stacked against the effort. After all, odds are the basics of any trading plan. In looking at the possibilities of making this work, I came to the conclusion that you would have to scalp small amounts off of decent runs, being very conservative with tight stops, and a lot of patients. I understand the leverage and margin calls that would most likely squash any chance of building that account.
Perhaps this would be an interesting experiment when the market conditions change.
side_job is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:06 PM.


vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.